Brand and Business Photography - Marcus Ahmad

Steve and Nick's guest this episode is Marcus Ahmad. Marcus has had a long and varied career in photography, including fashion, advertising and now brand photography. He is also a qualified  senior lecturer in fashion and advertising photography. Marcus somehow also finds time to play bass guitar for a variety of bands and venues.  Steve is nursing a hangover from sampling real ales in Birmingham, whilst Nick is packing his bags for a well earned vacation. 

Marcus Ahmad Website https://www.marcusahmad.com/  

Shoot to the Top Podcast https://shoottothetop.com/

Transcript

Steve Vaughan (00:01)
Nick, can you do me a favour on this podcast recording? Can you not talk too loud? I've got a of a headache.

Nick Church (00:07)
dear, what was that?

Steve Vaughan (00:08)
It's self-inflicted, have to say. We had a few beers yesterday, Samantha and I. I know it doesn't sound like me, completely out of character, I know, but yes. We were recording this on the Tuesday and yesterday was Monday the 1st of September and Sam and I were in Birmingham, in all seriousness. It's two years since my brother passed away on that day and we said we'd go and have a few beers in one of his favourite pubs in Birmingham. It's a called the Wellington. If you ever were in Birmingham,

Nick Church (00:13)
dear.

Yeah. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (00:35)
check out the Wellington, it's got 15 real ales. And I didn't quite get that far now, otherwise I wouldn't be here. Having a headache, I'd be in the infirmary probably, but it's a great pub, no food or anything, you you just go in and have some beers. yeah, was nice afternoon. Pardon? Yeah, well, not bad. It's Birmingham rather than black country. So I don't want to sort of go into the nuances of regional variations, but Pickle Egg is more of a black country thing, I think it is.

Nick Church (00:38)
And did you have one of each?

Not even a pickled egg? Is it a pickled egg?

right.

What is

it? I didn't know, was it?

Steve Vaughan (01:04)
Yeah, and cobs.

What do you call a round bread product? It's not a bap. No, it's a cob. It's a cob.

Nick Church (01:08)
ABAP. It's ABAP, isn't it? Obviously. Okay.

Well, anyway, I'm surprised that you're actually here after your comment about referring to Samantha's underwear draw. I thought you might get sort of I was expecting in like the Bicester Herald to see like, you know, if, but yeah, all right, a photographer was found passed away this morning. Causes unknown.

Steve Vaughan (01:25)
The Bicester Advertiser is the local Thunderer. Yes.

Nick Church (01:32)
as yet, although there's a tripod near the scene.

Steve Vaughan (01:34)
Actually, if I'm being real honest,

had a queue outside the door wanting to have a look. No, not true. Sorry, Sam, if you're listening. I'm digging a hole. Pass me that spade.

Nick Church (01:40)
All right, think you're gonna make it worse. You're making it worse. ⁓ How's your week been, Steve? So

you've been away with Samantha to commemorate your brother's ⁓ passing. So that was, it was just a day, was it? And that was like yesterday.

Steve Vaughan (01:52)
It was just a day trip. Yeah.

It was yesterday. we're actually, we normally record these every couple of weeks because you're going away. In fact, you're on vacation while the time is going live. So we're recording this a week early. So I also suffered, unfortunately, for the same reason, my football team on Sunday evening as well. So I haven't seen Aston Villa play for a couple of years and it might be another decade before I go again. I saw them play against Crystal Palace. It was dreadful.

Nick Church (02:15)
Were you a of a bad luck?

Were you the sort of, you know, the kiss of death that you turned up in?

Steve Vaughan (02:21)
I think so. Yeah.

I was sitting there in afternoon and my, my son said, ⁓ there's still a tickets left for the Sunday. said to Sam, so I go. She said, yes, off go off and go off and go. So I've got my credit card out 49 quid later and then petrol couple of beers, food, probably 80 quid gone. And I'd have been happier just putting that down the toilet. would have been better use of my money, frankly. Yeah. Crystal Palace bogey Yeah. Bogey team. Yeah. So, yeah. Stupid game.

Nick Church (02:30)
Yeah. Get out of the house.

dear, who do they get beaten by? ⁓ right. dear. Well, my commiserations

about that. If you're, if you're ⁓ as a Brista Rovers fan, you kind of don't really care about, yeah, you don't really care about victories because it's such an infrequent thing that it's just not worth. Yeah, still the gas. Yep.

Steve Vaughan (02:50)
stupid game. Yeah. So, run your

The gas.

Are they still called the gas? Is that still the nickname?

And that's because they used to play on the Gasworks or Neo Gasworks.

Nick Church (03:07)
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. It's, um, it, where Ikea is in Eastville in Bristol and, and Bristol city city's nickname is we can't say because of the, um, family nature of the podcast, but it begins with SH and rhymes with city. So, um, but that's how they affectionately call themselves, which always sounds a bit dense to me, but that, yeah, but, so, um, no weddings this weekend for you then.

Steve Vaughan (03:13)
My daughter lives about two miles from there.

Okay, okay. Yeah, got you. Yeah

Do they? Yeah, sound like a true story. Yeah.

No, no weddings this weekend, all the weekend coming up. I'm going to Birkenhead do a pre-wedding shoot, which is a different. got a couple who's wedding we're doing in October, but have moved up to Merseyside if that is, Birkenhead is Merseyside, yes, for work. So they've said, you would you mind coming up there? And I said, well, yes, but obviously there's a cost involved and yeah, no problem. So having an exciting night in a Premier Inn in Birkenhead Saturday night ahead of a pre-wedding shoot. Yeah.

Nick Church (03:58)
Oh God,

God, living the life of luxury. Like Beyonce.

Steve Vaughan (04:01)
I know, live in the dream, yeah. If you come

from Birkenhead, don't write in and complain. I know it's a lovely place, I've been there many times.

Nick Church (04:07)
I've got a wedding at somewhere when I got the inquiry, I thought it was a scam because the venue is in Buckinghamshire and it's called non non such mansion. Yeah, I've never heard anything like that before. So I had to Google it. I it was a real venue. So, um, yeah, the really looking forward to that. So they're having, um, photos and a film as well. um, yeah, and friend of the podcast is, um, in attendance, although I've got a drive, I suspect he'll be.

Steve Vaughan (04:14)
Hmm. I it. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, that'll be nice.

Cool, you're gonna be busy.

Nick Church (04:35)
We got quite an early start, so I think he'll be sleeping on the way. Jan, that was on the bus. Yeah, so he'll be doing the video. Anyway, right, today, yes, let's start the show. Let's get cracking.

Steve Vaughan (04:38)
Who's that? Jan, of course. Yeah, yeah. Hey, Jan. Yeah. Good. Should we start the show? Should we start the show? Yeah. Okay.

Hello and welcome again to the photography pod.

podcast for both working professionals and enthusiasts, photographers alike. My name is Steve Vaughan. I'm here again with my good mate, Nick Church. And we also have a guest as well. And I'll let Nick introduce our guest.

Nick Church (05:00)
Yeah, today we're delighted with another Bristolian. So there's two against one. it does come to a fight situation, I'm pretty confident. ⁓ So we have Marcus Ahmed today. Marcus has a history in advertising and fashion photography. We're going to get him to fill in all of these gaps very shortly. Then he was a lecturer at a university, which I've forgotten, Newport.

Steve Vaughan (05:08)
regional variations. Yes, okay. Yeah.

Fantastic.

Nick Church (05:26)
And he also is now a branding photographer, which I'm really interested in because it's an area that I don't know much about and also runs another excellent podcast ⁓ shoot to the top with his co-host Sam Hollis and he's a bass player. So we're going to hear all about that right now. So Marcus, thank it seems like it Marcus. Thanks for coming on the pod.

Steve Vaughan (05:32)
same.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (05:39)
This is

Steve Vaughan (05:42)
An all-round

A markers.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (05:46)
thanks guys. Thanks for having me on. a pleasure to be, pleasure to meet you both.

Nick Church (05:51)
great. So we usually ask this, could you give us a little bit of background about you and your photography, sort of how your back history, if you don't mind.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (05:59)
Yeah,

yeah, well, it's been a long one, about 30 years. I did start quite late photography. I started in my early 30s. Before that, was a session magician playing bass guitar on people's records and stuff. But yeah, I came into it in my 30s. And as soon as I picked up the camera, I knew this is what I wanted to do next for a career. So I jumped into it with both feet and I went straight off to go and study it, study the

study photography, I went to Bournemouth first of all to do my national diploma. And then I went to do three years at in Brighton doing editorial photography with some fantastic tutors down there Mark Power, who's a magnum photographer and Paul Reese, etc. And that was Danny Brighton. Then I went back to London where I was living in London at the time. And I started off my career as an assistant working with advertising photographers doing some really

Nick Church (06:30)
Mm-hmm.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (06:51)
huge campaigns. was the 90s, late 90s then. So it's a lot of money splashing around and we did huge campaigns. I did that for about four years, mainly focusing on lighting. That was what people booked me for. And then I went off on my own career, guys, and I went on and did fashion photography, which is my sort of portfolio was a fashion photography portfolio. And so yeah, I I did that for about 10 years working around the world, mainly in America it was because

They seem to really like my style there, worked in New York and LA. But I went to Paris, Milan, Far East, all over the place. Yeah, it was really good fun. Yes.

Nick Church (07:26)
⁓ What made you just to back up a little bit, what made

you, so you, you had these lighting schools. Was that something you picked up in Bournemouth? that, is that how you got that knowledge?

Marcus Ahmad Photography (07:35)
you mentioned, yeah, Bournemouth is a very vocational college, where you learn practical skills. I went there because Nick Knight, the fashion photographer, was one of the ex students, am or was a massive fan of Nick Knight. So yeah, they were very good for the skills. They were very good. You're quite right about that. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (07:40)
Yes.

Nick Church (07:52)
Okay. So, so I'm,

I'm picking up then that, cause like that my next question was going to be what made you move away from advertising? Cause like you said in the nineties, tons of money in that industry, really glossy, really important ad campaigns that they've really informed our sort of social consciousness throughout for those of us that are old enough to remember. So I was interested to see what, made you move to fashion, but I'm guessing that was always a kind of love of yours.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (08:08)
Yeah. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (08:08)
Mm.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (08:14)
It was and maybe in hindsight, I would have been better for assisting a fashion photographer, it, you know, nevertheless, it turned out I was doing it for advertising. And the great thing about working with advertising, it was super creative and I learned a lot about putting campaigns together and putting shoots together and stuff like that. So, So, yeah. ⁓

Nick Church (08:34)
Right. What was that process

like? mean, what kind of campaigns are we talking about for the listeners so we can sort of set some context?

Marcus Ahmad Photography (08:41)
Well, I was assisting so that the festivals that they were like, who do we work for? God, Kodak, Lloyds, Halifax, Foster's, Sencio, Nokia, oh God, the list just goes, or TFL, we did a three week shoot for Transport for London in the underground, you know, really big. The photographer I assisted, actually, I can't really mention his name, because he was known for doing other types of photography as well, which was seen as a bit more serious.

Nick Church (08:58)
Gosh.

Steve Vaughan (08:59)
Gosh.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (09:11)
but he won a gold award for being one of the top advertising photographers in the country in that particular time, a really top award. So he was very good. he got booked because his work, he was a documentary photographer and they wanted the photographs to look real.

Nick Church (09:20)
And so.

Okay. Interesting. So yeah, it's a bit a bit more. So moving away from the very studio, like that very, what would nowadays look like AI to us, wouldn't it? suspect that those sorts of those sorts of images to make it a bit more, a bit more real in people's minds. What what? And so moving into fashion from that, that's that's quite, quite a bold move. If you're, you if you're relying on that income, did you?

Marcus Ahmad Photography (09:33)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Steve Vaughan (09:47)
Mm.

Nick Church (09:58)
Did you have a period where you you would sort of had a foot in both camps and you was kind of building up fashion clientele or did you just go both feet in and go for it?

Marcus Ahmad Photography (10:06)
Yeah, that's exactly right. did have, I had a studio in London, not a big studio, small studio, but I had a studio. And so I was ⁓ doing this thing, building up my photography portfolio, working with, testing with agencies, working with magazines, Sunday Times, Star Guide and stuff like that. But you're right, it was a very tough gig to make a living out of fashion. It was then and it still is now. Very, very tough. ⁓

Nick Church (10:29)
Hmm, extremely

competitive, I imagine.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (10:32)
Well, all photography is competitive. I wouldn't say it's more competitive than any other industry. yeah. But I had been photographing hair and beauty. My sister was a hairdresser. So I had actually a portfolio of hair and beauty photography. And that's really what got me the work. So I did it more into the studio side, more hair and beauty. So it's IE, much more technical.

Steve Vaughan (10:35)
Hmm.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (10:56)
and you know, more of what I was, what I was really. And so yeah, that's, I niched it down into doing hair and beauty.

Steve Vaughan (10:56)
All right.

Nick Church (11:01)
Hmm.

Steve Vaughan (11:06)
I was going to say you made it sound very matter of fact, if I can put it that way, Marcus, you know, you were in marketing, then you moved into fashion photography and went to LA and all these fantastic places, but I'm sure it wasn't matter of fact. I'm sure it was a lot of hard work, a lot of possibly rejection at the start as well. know, would that be possible now in today's world to do that kind of thing? Or has the world changed so much?

Marcus Ahmad Photography (11:22)
Yeah.

to break into fashion photography or just to break into photography.

Steve Vaughan (11:31)
Just

partly just to move Korea in the way you did, but yes, to break into, know, are the openings still there? Do people still need fashion photographers in the same way as they did when you changed?

Marcus Ahmad Photography (11:37)
Hmm. Yeah.

Well, later on, I became a lecturer, a senior lecturer in fashion photography. that was my role then was to help people become fashion photographers. And there's a thing I used to say to my students, which they never understood. And I didn't understand it when I was trying to get into the fashion business. And that was if you want to shoot fashion, don't photograph fashion.

Steve Vaughan (11:48)
sure.

Okay, tell us more.

Nick Church (12:00)
Okay.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (12:01)
Basically,

don't go in a portfolio that looks like out of a magazine because they've seen it all before and they've already got loads of photographers are doing that very, very well for them. If you want to get into fashion photography, you've got to do something much more personal, stuff that nobody's really photographing, which ends up being your own work, stuff about yourself. That's what they're looking for. Stuff with a story, photographs with a story. We hear that's banded around a lot, we? The story of, but really the visual narrative is...

Steve Vaughan (12:06)
Yeah.

Of course.

Nick Church (12:19)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Vaughan (12:29)
Right. So almost a documentary type approach in some respects. Yeah. Yeah. Fascinating. Yeah. We never thought that. Yeah. Wow.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (12:30)
Much more important. Yeah, you could say that. You could say that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nick Church (12:37)
The, the listener

can, if you go to Marcus Ahmed, that's a Marcus, ⁓ a H A D.com. So Marcus Ahmed.com. there's, you can have a look at some of his fashion work. If you go to the other, goes to the about page and then there's like a secret, a secret portfolio. I love it. I absolutely love it. Yeah. I can, I can see why it is so different, but it is really striking work and it's really fascinating. Yeah.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (12:42)
Correct.

It says I hide it away. I do hide away. Well, you know, I don't get people confused.

Thank you.

Yeah, it was good. Really, it was a great time. It was all on film guys as well, I have to say. And you say about the pressure of doing it. That was the real pressure shooting, you know, fairly high end campaigns and Lizbeth Ford, Lauder, Weller, Culliston, Saxe, Heron, Big campaigns on film with Hasselblad cameras on slide as well. used to shoot and slide transparency, which as you know, it's really you got to get exposure bang on.

Steve Vaughan (13:25)
plastic.

You've got absolutely no latitude at all have you with the, no. Yeah, yeah, takes me back. Come on, sweat, cold sweat.

Nick Church (13:29)
Yeah.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (13:30)
No latitude, a third of a stop.

Nick Church (13:34)
Is that, know, I'm a, ⁓ I'm an

ignorant digital only photographer is, that a, what is it that gives you such little attitude in that, in what you've just talked about? Is that the slide aspect or.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (13:47)
Okay, that's a very technical question, Nick. I don't think I can answer that. It's chemical. organic, isn't it? Film is organic. And it's to do with that. don't really know. Do you know Steve? ⁓ there you go.

Steve Vaughan (13:49)
It is,

Well, being the chemist in the room, as I have got a chemistry degree,

mean, most slide films, what's known as E6 processing, as opposed to Kodachrome. So, but I don't know the answer to that either. I suspect because it's a one-stop process. So you when you're printing, have another process. When you print, you've got the negative and then you've got the printing. Exactly. So it's one try and get it only get it right or not.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (14:04)
Mm-hmm.

Mm.

correct and have a chance of getting it right.

Yeah, that's true.

Steve Vaughan (14:25)
I

suspect it's that really. can't, you know, I don't, I don't know anything more than that really, but I can remember vividly, you know, shooting slide film, sending it off and getting the little box back, you know, a week later, excitedly, and then looking at them and they're all dark or all blown out. Cause just didn't understand that, you know, the exposure triangle properly in those days, a long time ago.

Nick Church (14:26)
Okay.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (14:39)
Yeah.

But what he did, but

Nick Church (14:42)
And was there, and

Marcus Ahmad Photography (14:43)
what.

Nick Church (14:43)
is there no method then to get that slide when you come to print it? There's, there's no other step you can interject at that point.

Steve Vaughan (14:49)
Well, you don't print it.

That's the whole thing. It's a projection product really. Although you can print it of course.

Nick Church (14:53)
okay.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (14:56)
There is a way you can do it. what you do, you do a clip test. And this is like, shooting in New York is fantastic, because all the labs are right by the studios, which are then right by the model agencies. So you do your shoot, put a roll of film through the camera, and then you take it to the lab and you say, could you do half the roll, half a stop, half a stop over and half the roll, half a stop under.

And then you can look at it and see, okay, I know I can push it here or put it there. And that's the last, you can change it a little bit there if you need to, but really you've got to get it right. But the payoff is the quality is insane. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steve Vaughan (15:32)
Out of this world, yeah. Yeah, yeah, completely. Hey,

Nick Church (15:35)
interesting.

Steve Vaughan (15:35)
and

Nick Church (15:36)
That's interesting. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (15:36)
what a good grounding to have anyway, because we can get lazy in digital and know that we can drag things back a stop or two, but actually want to get it right in the camera first time. Yeah. Not quite test stops.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (15:42)
Mm. Yeah, definitely.

Nick Church (15:44)
10 stops Steve.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (15:48)
Not 10 stops. Black and white, no, black and

white has got a seven stop latitude. So black and white you can. Yeah. Yeah. So we've got really so technical in my life. my God.

Steve Vaughan (15:52)
Yeah. Wow. Let's hope for us all yet.

Nick Church (15:53)
yeah.

I did, I did,

I did a shoot in, ⁓ I think I said last, last time on the last episode, I did a shoot in a theater, bath, you know, bath forum, Marcus. ⁓ I show you how, yeah. ⁓ so the couple got, ⁓ married there and it was just the groom said, it's pretty light in there. And I was thinking I've been there a couple of times. It doesn't seem very light and it was almost completely black. So I had my off camera lights.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (16:06)
Yes, I played that many times. That is not a good place to play off dear.

Nick Church (16:24)
loaded all of those images into Lightroom. And when I do that, I automatically apply my preset, which does crush highlights quite a lot. I ended up with about 800 black, black squares because the highlights are gone and that was all there was. yeah, so I had to go back and lift all those back up again.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (16:36)
Oh dear, yes, yes.

Steve Vaughan (16:38)
Panic mode, panic mode,

yeah, yeah. ⁓

So you're a podcaster as well, Marcus. So tell us about your podcast and what made you start podcasting.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (16:48)
I started a podcast about two years ago, Shoot to the Top it's called, and it's aimed at commercial photographers. And I was actually approached by my co-host Sam, who talks about marketing, he's a marketing guy, to do it with him. Yes, Sam Hollis. Yes, correct. And so on our podcast, he talks about marketing, I talk about creativity. So we have a little bit of that. And we basically battling it out as to which one is most important.

Nick Church (17:00)
This is Sam Hollis, right? Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (17:15)
Ooh, ooh, and who wins? I will listen by the way.

Nick Church (17:16)
you

Marcus Ahmad Photography (17:19)
I... Yeah...

Nick Church (17:20)
I'm

on the pod in back in September or October. can't remember. Yeah, I've got the date booked in. So I'll let you know, Steve, who I think's got the best angle there. It's like an old French exchange trip, isn't it? You come on here and I'll That's not like that. That's the beauty of distance, distance communications. We don't have that to worry about.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (17:22)
You up? You up?

Steve Vaughan (17:29)
I'll be listening out of it, guess.

You

Marcus Ahmad Photography (17:34)
I'm beginning to say something else then.

Steve Vaughan (17:39)
this is a family show.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (17:43)
Yes. Yes. that was

so yes, I was doing the fashion photography and then I did the senior lecturing for about 10 years at university in fashion and advertising, which is a very vocational course. And I really enjoyed that. I did my masters in teaching higher education, because I got a masters in teaching higher education for adult learners. And a PGCE level seven, which I then turn into a masters. Yeah. So you write you write a paper and then you can turn into a masters. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (17:53)
Amazing.

Nick Church (18:01)
Is that like a PGCE type? Okay. I see.

Okay. And then, so you did that for, you say 10 years you lectured? Yeah. And then you decided to put your, put your, go through the hell of going back into photography from, from a perfectly good, well-paid, ⁓ regular job. And, and this time you went into branding. Was that a consciousness and just to do something different or had your tastes change and that's what you felt like going into.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (18:13)
Almost 10 years, yes.

I did, yeah.

Yes, regular job.

Yes.

Good question. Good question, Nick. I was in Bristol by that time and obviously I was teaching in Cardiff in Newport. And I was really happy living in Bristol. And I didn't really see myself going back to London. And if I wanted to do fashion photography, I'd have to go back to London. It was as simple as that. which I, you know, nowhere has got, nowhere is like London. Nowhere beats London, I'm afraid. It's the same as music. If you want to do music, you got to go to London.

Nick Church (18:50)
Right. Are you saying Bristol's not got a strong fashion scene? Even with me in it?

Steve Vaughan (18:57)
Hahaha ⁓

Nick Church (18:59)
You

Sure.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (19:03)
commercial photography, fashion photography, really you got to go. I'm not saying everybody, but it does help a lot.

Nick Church (19:08)
Yeah,

you're giving yourself a massive advantage by doing so. Yeah, sure.

Steve Vaughan (19:09)
It's where it's at, isn't it?

Marcus Ahmad Photography (19:11)
You really do.

So I, someone told me about brand photography, and they described it me and I thought, Oh, God, that sounds just like fashion and advertising photography combined. I thought, you know, that's a perfect space for me. So that's what made me go into it. Unfortunately, the timing wasn't great. It was just at the start of COVID, wasn't it? Just at the end the phone was ringing and then all of sudden, the phone stopped ringing.

Nick Church (19:30)
You

Steve Vaughan (19:30)
gosh.

Nick Church (19:34)
Yes, yeah, that's about that. That's about the time I left my job to into photography about two years before then. But yeah, think but things were still things were ramping up. I thought this is fantastic. You know, no looking back now. hang on. What's going on?

Steve Vaughan (19:36)
Interesting.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (19:41)
The same, okay, yeah, so, yeah.

Steve Vaughan (19:42)
That time I started my other job.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (19:46)
Yeah. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (19:47)
Yeah. Crazy

Marcus Ahmad Photography (19:50)
Yeah. It's

Steve Vaughan (19:50)
times.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (19:51)
funny, I have a lot of businesses that started up. I think it's that decade thing, isn't it? When you get like every 10 years, on the 10s, the 20s, 30s, whatever, people do something a bit new or they step out then. Yeah. So I think that's reason why. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (20:00)
like a 10 year itch isn't it? yeah, something like that. Yeah, out of the comfort zones, which is always a good thing, certainly.

So, for the people listening to this who aren't sort of professional photographers or working photographers, you know, we have lots of people that, know, are in the field as photographers and that's totally, totally great. But what is a brand photography? You know, what is a typical day of a brand photographer? What do they do? Who are your customers? What's the process? Can you give us a bit of a flavor for that Marcus?

Marcus Ahmad Photography (20:20)
Mm.

Nick Church (20:21)
Good question.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (20:23)
Mmm.

Branding photography is working with businesses, it's called B2B, basically, it's from business to business, as opposed to what you guys do with your wedding, which is B2C, business to consumer, the consumer. So I work with businesses and I work with probably half of them solo-preneurs, one man businesses, one woman businesses, and then the other one are quite big, companies, mainly in the tech and ⁓ hospitality sort of space.

Steve Vaughan (20:36)
B to C.

All

Marcus Ahmad Photography (20:55)
So, and that's kind of what's been around for years. And it used to be called ⁓ corporate brochure or lifestyle photography. It's just another name. They just rebranded it as a brand photography. And I think that that's come from America. came from, it started off in America, brand photography about six years ago, I would say. Yeah.

Nick Church (21:05)
haha

Steve Vaughan (21:09)
Yes.

Interesting, interesting.

And is it, know, are you photographing the product? Are you photographing the person? Are you photographing their facilities? Or is it all of that?

Marcus Ahmad Photography (21:20)
Mm, I see.

I, it's mainly people, I photograph people doing things. That's what I do. So, you know, part of it will be in the studio, maybe headshots and some portraits, and then, and then half the job might be on location or, or mixing it up. But it's mainly, it's people doing things or, or, or headshots as well. And I, I do do product, I do shoot product as well, but I just don't advertise it.

Steve Vaughan (21:28)
right.

Yeah.

Right.

So their images would end up on the website on LinkedIn and that kind of thing. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (21:49)
Yep, exactly. Mainly websites, because it's quite premium,

the range I'm doing. So it's not really for social media. It's a bit too, it's more for websites, something a bit more permanent, or evergreen, call it, don't they? Evergreen, a bit more permanent.

Steve Vaughan (21:55)
sure.

Yep. Yep.

Yeah, interesting.

Yeah. Yeah, thanks for that.

Nick Church (22:05)
So it's more, so you've

got a headshot, is, you know, it could be in a context of where someone's working, say an artist studio or something. And then branding is more about, would be shots of them actually working and in that environment. And then that becomes part of their sort of branding collateral for their website, I guess.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (22:24)
Exactly. exactly. mean, I always try to say, you know, branding photographs, you should be able to look at it and tell what that person does, what, you know, what their values are, you know, what they what do they charge and all that kind of thing. It should all come out of that one image if you can, you know, that's the that's the aim, really. And photography course is brilliant for doing that. I mean, I know we are in the age of video, but photography is just brilliant of getting across a message in seconds.

Steve Vaughan (22:50)
Absolutely. Yeah.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (22:51)
You can't beat it. You

can't beat that. It can get the story, the visual narrative comes across instantly. Now, you know, that story is going to be different to whoever's looking at it. And that's the whole, you know, the truthful lies of photography. But nevertheless, there's a story in there that comes across very quickly.

Nick Church (23:08)
And

it's almost subliminal, isn't it? You spend so little time looking at a photo on a website, for example, compared with sitting and watching a video, even if it's 30 seconds, that's 30 seconds you've looked at it, a photo you've scanned through, but you've taken all of that in, you've taken what their values are and the level of quality and the sort of, you know, if ideally they're getting their, their passion and their personality across as well in that photo. And it all just goes in, in a fraction of a second is a pretty powerful medium.

Steve Vaughan (23:31)
Hmm.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (23:32)
I agree. I'm, know, I'm obviously, you know, we're all photographers here, but I will always stand up for photography as a medium, you know, that is just for getting a message across, you know, there's lots of other things as well, obviously, I've already made a video, I think photography is still very profound and very strong. yeah, and now, now, now, sorry, I'm just, and now I've got, teach branding as well. I'm teaching as an educator as well, like yourself, Nick.

Nick Church (23:48)
Mm.

Steve Vaughan (23:49)
Absolutely. ⁓

Nick Church (23:50)
What?

Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (23:58)
So

is that not just brand photography, that's the whole aspect of branding, know, fonts, colours, all that kind of thing as well?

Marcus Ahmad Photography (24:04)
I teach people how to get good ideas. I teach them how to because ultimately, that's going to separate you from AI, your competitors and everything. It's not the it's the having good ideas and that can you know, can encompass photography, video, etc. But it's having ideas. And when I work with my clients, I say to them, look, I'm not photographing you. I'm not capturing where you are now. I'm photographing you where you want to be in the future.

Steve Vaughan (24:07)
Right? Got you.

Yeah.

Love it. Yeah.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (24:34)
So you're adding a lot of value there.

Nick Church (24:34)
What, what, do you see with

AI Marcus in terms of branding? mean, product photography has got probably extra risk attached to it, I suspect from AI branding has got, I mean, that's an area that I see being sold in terms of AI that you can just have your have your iPhone photo and it can put you, me, in your, ⁓ environment and create nice lighting, but it's still AI, isn't it? And

Marcus Ahmad Photography (24:42)
Hmm. Yeah, I would have thought.

Nick Church (25:02)
And we had this conversation on my Facebook group earlier today about, this an area that's just going to disappear? and I think what's happening is you remember when mid journey came out, like when would that be like four or five years ago, something like that? They, they was creating photos that we were just blown away with thinking photography is over. This is just incredible. Now we look at those photos and they're a bit crap, aren't they? They're not, you know, we can tell straight away that AI, they don't look real.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (25:08)
Mm.

Mm-hmm. Sure.

Nick Church (25:32)
We've got much better at identifying what is AI and what isn't without having to count the fingers. We can just tell it's not, it's not right. And, and they're being used by, to create fairly nefarious political points and things, things like that. know, AI is being used for pretty negative things. Well, I think while the more the technology develops and the more people are worried about it, I think there's almost a counter argument to say, you don't need to be worried about it because we're getting better at picking up.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (25:39)
fingers.

Nick Church (25:59)
brands are looking for authenticity. If everyone can create an AI photo, then the brands that want to elevate from that will be keeping with photographers that can create that personal kind of connection.

Steve Vaughan (26:09)
Absolutely.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (26:10)
think the threat for ISOs photography is not going to be a direct threat. I think it might be because there might be less, less economy going on, less work, less people in work, you know, less money, possibly. And I think that might affect photography, then that will affect everything. I don't, you know, I think I don't see AI being used a lot. I don't, I'm not aware of it. And I think it is still, I try and do it myself, and it is still quite difficult. But I come

Back to the original statement, it's all about ideas. That's what the goal is, is having good ideas.

Steve Vaughan (26:39)
Yeah.

And I think in a world of increasingly, you know, me to products and services, it's how can you differentiate yourself and that, and that this clearly is an important way, you know, we having the good ideas and be able to articulate that in your brand can really differentiate you from, the, from everybody else out there. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (26:54)
Yes, exactly.

Yeah, in whatever medium, yes.

Nick Church (26:58)
And actually the, the, the, the,

example that I saw earlier, this, video of a photographer that was saying it photography is over because I, you know, products of these over, he had a photo of two cars in a car park in like a, an Aldi or something is in the U S but you know, equivalent and then put them, you know, created this, use this new app to create a background. And he just did the lighting and he made sure the background was, but there's loads of steps that somebody that doesn't know about photography wouldn't be able to do.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (27:26)
Yes.

No, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. I put it on the band, my own band, we put an album out a couple of years ago. And I went to the put it was we've discovered an old cassette tape with some stuff up. We put it out and recorded the lost album. So I wanted a picture of a cassette tape, an AD 60 or whatever inside a bottle on the beach, you know.

Steve Vaughan (27:28)
Exactly.

Nick Church (27:28)
So it's just

an extra tool. Like I could do that in Photoshop right now, but it would take me an hour. So it's going to take me five minutes in future. That's the only difference, isn't it?

Steve Vaughan (27:34)
Yeah.

Brilliant.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (27:52)
So I could not do it on AI. I thought, I'll this. went down to Western Super Mario and photographed it in about 10 minutes. And they just swapped it together.

Steve Vaughan (27:58)
Fantastic, brilliant. Do you cassettes, Nick?

Are you too young to remember your cassettes? Good, good, I feel a lot better now.

Nick Church (28:02)
I can remember cassettes. Yeah, I remember recording the

top 40 and pressing trying to press pause at the right time. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (28:07)
so you didn't hear the DJ talking over the song. Yeah, completely. Two fingers, yeah. Yeah,

Anyway, we digress. So as some of the listeners to the show would know, I do a weekly radio show on the internet on the station called In Cakewalks Staircase. So music is built into my DNA. So I'm fascinated about your music career as well, Marcus. So tell us a bit about that. You played bass for a number of years.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (28:28)
I've been playing bass for 50 years. I started when I was 11, 12, 12, yeah, yeah.

Steve Vaughan (28:31)
Wow, I need a lesson.

Nick Church (28:34)
Ha.

Steve Vaughan (28:36)
It gives the flavor of the kind of people you've played with, the kind music you've played, the venues.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (28:42)
Back in the day in the 90s, I don't think I too much about it really, because I had a band, had a couple number ones, played and other bands I played as well. I had quite a nice career of it. But I was a bass player. And so I was always playing other people's tunes and stuff. And that's what why I switched to photography really, because

Steve Vaughan (28:53)
Wow.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (29:02)
I wanted to come up with the ideas and see my ideas come to fruition, which I can never really, I couldn't sing and I couldn't write songs. I thought it'd be a lot easier to become a photographer. So that's what I did. Yeah, and now I play in a funk wedding band and that's Nick would not know this, but I've seen Nick in operation from the stage. have seen you, yes, we've done weddings together. Yes.

Steve Vaughan (29:10)
Right. Rather than playing somebody else's compositions. Yeah, got you. Yeah.

Nick Church (29:14)
you

O.T.U.

Steve Vaughan (29:23)
Whoa!

Nick Church (29:24)
have

you? wow. Fantastic.

Steve Vaughan (29:28)
And despite that, you still came on the podcast. Yeah.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (29:30)
wedding band

I play in is called Agent Funk, so it's a real wedding agent agency. A little bit of Bruno Mars, which has got some, you know, and some bit of modern stuff, Justin Timberlake, but yeah, a bit of a mix really. Horn section, all that kind of thing. And of course, for me being a bass player, funk is like, know, funk music is all about the bass, isn't it? Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (29:33)
Agent funk. And is it kind of 70s, 80s funk, that kind of thing?

yeah, cool, yeah. ⁓

I'm sure we can get you some bookings.

the one about the bass as some goes.

Amazing. Yeah.

Nick Church (29:55)
When was this Marcus, do remember?

The time where you, the time where we're at the same, at the same event.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (29:59)
Oh,

I think, I think it's been a couple of times. I think you remember, I could be wrong again. I think we're blagging in, was it the blagging in? Was it there? played there so many and not the cum laude, sorry, the cum laude, sorry, that's this, yes. Yeah, but yes. But I get to see a lot of wedding photographers. I do get it. I'm more...

Nick Church (30:07)
Black, Keem Lodge probably. Yes, yeah,

Steve Vaughan (30:13)
Wow. It wasn't the...

I going say he wasn't the typical

photographer sent to the band. Can you turn the lights down? Can you turn the colours off? I'm sure he didn't do that.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (30:20)
Yes, yeah.

So, but...

Nick Church (30:26)
I always

say I couldn't care less, do whatever you like, I'll just deal with it.

Steve Vaughan (30:29)
Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (30:30)
No, yeah, it's, yeah.

But what amazes me, it's all these love, mean, you know, being a big band, we're quite expensive, and I know you're premium wedding photographer, Nick. All these venues, they never have any lights, do they? On the stage. It's ridiculous, isn't it? It's like you're a wedding venue. I know.

Steve Vaughan (30:43)
No, don't. No. They don't have a clue.

Nick Church (30:43)
No, there's no, no, there's no lighting on the stage is

where the stage is. It is quite unusual, but then the same applies to earlier in the day, which before you get there, when they have speeches, they'll put them right by a bright window. So you've got, you've got people in silhouette, you know, so it's, and I do wonder if there's a opportunity for someone to go in and just give a bit of consultancy to venues, you know, these higher end venues where that would make the difference. Cause a lot of, a lot of my couples do want to hire bands because they want to have.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (30:56)
Yeah, okay, that lit. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (30:57)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (31:05)
Mm. Yeah, it's, yeah.

Nick Church (31:12)
a gig, they want to have a really decent gig and it would help to have really good

Marcus Ahmad Photography (31:13)
Yes, it does work.

Steve Vaughan (31:17)
You can't beat a good band at a wedding.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (31:18)
Yeah, for you,

the photographer as well, as the band, you know, and they're charging X amount of money, loads of money for any, we won't go there too much. But yes, so I get to see a lot of wedding photographers in action. I've done a few weddings myself, maybe about a dozen or something. I do enjoy it. But branding photography is the one...

Nick Church (31:25)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (31:32)
I bet you do. Yeah. ⁓

Nick Church (31:36)
Okay.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (31:40)
The reason I like branding photography is because it's my idea. I come up with the ideas. I style it. They wear what I tell them. I choose the location. It's everything is down to me, know, complete control.

Nick Church (31:43)
Hmm.

Steve Vaughan (31:44)
Yeah, absolutely.

Complete control. Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Church (31:50)
So what's the

process there, Marcus, to get to that point where, if I was to book you as a branding photographer, what sort of conversations would we have before the shoot?

Marcus Ahmad Photography (32:00)
Yeah, that's a very good question. I find, as I said to you earlier, I try and find out what where they aspire to be, where they want to be, you know, who their audience is, who they're trying to appeal to. And then we base around the location around that, maybe what their, what their role is, or if it's a big company I'm working for, that's all that's it's pretty much I'd be working with a marketing team.

And therefore it's a different conversation, but it's still a conversation to be had. So with SoloPaners, it's about guiding them to where they want to be. With marketing departments, it's about working with them and shooting what they want, but also shooting what I want and hoping that, you know, build.

Nick Church (32:38)
Sure. Cause there must

be a few more constraints when you've got a team that already got quite a strong brand element already that it needs to key in in terms of colors and things. Yeah.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (32:44)
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (32:45)
Yeah, of course.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (32:47)
Yeah. I mean, in fact, when working in advertising, guys, they used to give you a drawing or even a photograph mocked up exactly of how they wanted it and you had to copy it identically. Identically. Yeah, really. It's like, well, what's the point of doing that? So yeah, yeah, but give us the money. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Advertising is quite odd one. But yeah, so branding photography for me and I shoot Tevred as well and stuff like that for that. And I use Light.

Steve Vaughan (32:59)
Wow.

Another world. Yeah.

Nick Church (33:12)
What sort of kick?

Steve Vaughan (33:12)
So this

is, I was going to say this isn't a gear podcast, but let's just do a bit of gear stuff. So what do you shoot with and what kind of equipment?

Nick Church (33:13)
⁓

Marcus Ahmad Photography (33:19)
I shoot with a camera. I've got old fashioned. I'm a swan, but I do make a family show, family show, family show. I shoot with an old fashioned camera. I shoot with a D850, the Nikon. No, yes I do. It's a great camera, aren't they? Great cameras. Yeah, 750, they're like tanks.

Steve Vaughan (33:21)
Good answer.

Nick Church (33:22)
I

I've gone right off him, Steve, haven't you? I've gone off him, yeah. ⁓

Steve Vaughan (33:27)
me too, yeah, yeah.

Hahaha.

Nick Church (33:36)
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Lovely camera. Yeah. Yeah. I still have D750. So love it. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (33:39)
No, nothing worked at all. Yeah.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (33:46)
I've got

Nick Church (33:46)
Yeah.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (33:46)
two, of course, I need a spare. But because I shoot tethered, I'm not really looking for anything more, you know, and I'm shooting to capture one on my laptop or whatever. I use lighting, but probably about 80 % of the time. No, no, it's all flash. I don't think...

Nick Church (33:59)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Vaughan (33:59)
Is that flash or are you doing a continue lighting as well these days? It's all

flash.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (34:05)
I

don't see you can use continuous lighting because you're working in spaces that already put the wind light coming in. You can't control it. Yeah, you got no control. You know, that's a beauty of flash, isn't it? You can turn night into day and day into night. You know, you can tell the ultimate story.

Nick Church (34:11)
Yeah, you've got no control, you...

Steve Vaughan (34:12)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Nick Church (34:18)
Yeah. Just put push

Steve Vaughan (34:19)
completely.

Nick Church (34:21)
away, push away the bits of light you don't want coming through the window and yeah.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (34:23)
Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So I shoot teardrop

with lighting and I normally I have this I have my assistant with me as well. So I shoot with assistance.

Steve Vaughan (34:33)
So what does the assistant do again for people who've never understood this kind of photography? What would the assistant do? And Prozac? No, that's probably...

Marcus Ahmad Photography (34:38)
get me coffee. My assistant

Nick Church (34:40)
You

Marcus Ahmad Photography (34:45)
will be setting up the lights and making sure they're all working and the computers. So basically what that does is not just being lazy, even though I am old and you've probably worked out my age, I'm 62. It's mainly because I can talk to the client.

Steve Vaughan (34:56)
Same here, yeah. Yeah, same here, yeah.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (35:02)
about what they want while the other light is being set up in another room or whatever. So it means I can cover a lot more ground with assistance. So it's I charged a client for that. But I said, look, you're gonna be paying for we're gonna get double the amount of shots because I work with an assistant.

Steve Vaughan (35:03)
Yeah, absolutely.

So important.

Nick Church (35:17)
That's a good point. Yeah. Cause especially I think if you're not, I'm not great at multitasking. So if I'm doing something, then basically I'm not even listening. So it'd be impossible to have a conversation when I'm trying to do stuff like that.

Steve Vaughan (35:18)
Yeah, great point. Great point. Fastest.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (35:26)
That's right.

Guys, what goes through your head, even though we know the exposure triangle, even though we know it inside out, still your brain or my brain certainly is going a million miles an hour, it? You've got numbers, you've got consistent things you're thinking about. It's just a lot to think about. So yeah, and the system makes that a lot easier.

Steve Vaughan (35:45)
Yep.

Nick Church (35:49)
What sort of lighting are we looking at? it like speed lights in softbox or dedicated studio lights?

Steve Vaughan (35:50)
great tip.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (35:55)
Yeah,

all sorts. I've got all the whole range, but it's all I use all GodDocs now. When I was working in fashion, it was all pro photo because it was all hired in. And when you hired lights in, you could charge it to the client and you put a markup on there so the more expensive lights you borrowed or hired the more money you could make and stuff like that. But now I use GodDocs, which is an incredible range, by the way, isn't it? Incredible. Yeah, it's so cheap. Yeah.

Nick Church (36:03)
Mm-hmm. Sure.

You

Steve Vaughan (36:17)
Great. think everybody I know uses them.

Nick Church (36:17)
⁓ yeah, yeah. Pretty hard to criticise at all. Bang for the buck. mean, it's

just unbeatable,

Marcus Ahmad Photography (36:25)
I know if you're doing product, their color consistency is a little bit off. But for what I'm doing, which is working with people, it does not matter. And so I've got I've got the speed light up to some 80 200. It's like a medium power and then I got big 600 powered ones. And then I use soft boxes. I use beauty dishes. I use grids on the honey or honeycombs. I eat the whole lot. Yeah, yeah, I use but I'm not complicated lighting.

Nick Church (36:32)
Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (36:38)
Yep. Yep.

Nick Church (36:38)
Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (36:42)
Beasts.

Nick Church (36:48)
Mm-hmm.

Can you explain to the listener

what ⁓ a beauty dish does? I think we're all more familiar with soft boxes, umbrellas and things basically just making the light source as big as possible. What is it a beauty dish does that's different?

Marcus Ahmad Photography (36:55)
Yes.

Steve Vaughan (36:55)
Mm.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (37:03)
Yeah, it's subtle. It's not a massive thing. It's okay, but it will give you more contrast. It's a harder light. Yeah, yeah. And you can change it by putting a honeycomb on it or a grid and that will change it or you can put a soft you can put a cover on it like I make it almost like a softbox. So it's very adaptable. But in its true form, it's what it's basically it's a silver silver dish with a cover over the bulb. So it's not direct into the people's faces or what you're lighting up.

Steve Vaughan (37:08)
slightly harder, isn't it? Yeah.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (37:30)
And so the little dish in the center, bounce it back into the beauty dish and then it comes out again. Yeah. yeah, it's very nineties like I used to use it a lot in fashion in hair beauty. A lot. And also ring flash I used a lot. A lot of ring flash. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (37:47)
Interesting.

I've just had an idea while you're talking and Marcus, it'd be great if you'd come back and did this, but wouldn't it good to do a show just about lighting? Just do a podcast just about, because it's something I think a lot of photographers, including me, probably struggle with in terms of understanding what kind of light you're using, what kind of situation like that. And perhaps we could just do a dedicated show on lighting and you could come back and talk to us on that, Marcus.

Nick Church (37:56)
Yeah.

Yeah, good idea. Good idea, Steve.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (38:10)
lighting is,

you know, it's compared to the olden days when it always used to go wrong, and the batteries would wear out in when it was too cold, or so I run out when it's too cold, or the lead would keep coming out your camera, it was horrible. Or you didn't even you have to do a Polaroid every time you're testing it. You know, it was horrible. These days, it is so much more straightforward, so much more straightforward and works. Yeah, yeah, I gladly do that for you guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Steve Vaughan (38:31)
Absolutely. Yeah.

Nick Church (38:34)
Yeah. Oh, that'd be

Steve Vaughan (38:36)
Yeah, it'd be great.

Nick Church (38:37)
great.

Yep. Yep. You want to have that? I mean, I've, I've found even going from like I started weddings in 2016 is my first wedding and going from a off camera flash system that was like put your pocket was a tight. Type trigger triggers that the way the flash goes on top of that. It was just so unreliable. It was a nightmare. Like if you've got to go somewhere, you're going up onto a balcony or something that doesn't work.

Steve Vaughan (38:37)
We'll put a feature show.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (38:52)
Liars.

Yeah, how about

Steve Vaughan (38:57)
completely.

Nick Church (39:01)
You're gonna go back down again. And there's so many different places where it could be going wrong. Godox just doesn't go wrong. And this isn't a Godox sponsored podcast. Maybe, maybe it should be. ⁓ yeah,

Marcus Ahmad Photography (39:02)
Yeah, yeah.

Steve Vaughan (39:07)
No, we're not sponsored by Goddix. Although we could be.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (39:10)
I've tried. I tried. Yes, yes. Well,

I'll tell you what I could if I did come to your talk about lighting, I've actually come up with a 10 print the 10 principles of flash photography, which, which one sentence about everything you need to know is in one so it's in 10 sentences, everything you need to know. Being a teacher, I'm very, my skill is condensing things into very short amounts of Yeah, yeah.

Steve Vaughan (39:21)
That'd be great.

Let's do that. Yeah.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Let's do it. And let's do that when we get the YouTube stuff back again. So we'll record it with that as well. But yeah, that we perhaps we can schedule that for the autumn. I've got one last question, I may, Marcus. And again, thanks so much for coming on. And I kind of always ask people this question, looking back on your career, and you've had a very varied and fascinating career. One particular memorable story that happened, you know, obviously don't divulge any confidentialities, but something either amusing or something that was

Nick Church (39:37)
Yes. Yeah, good shot.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (39:42)
Yes. Yes.

Steve Vaughan (39:59)
memorable for whatever reason, anything you could share to them.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (40:02)
Guys, there's been so many moments, you know, shooting models by swimming pools in LA. I don't know. One of the nicest ones, yeah, I just come to me, it was in New York in Daylight Studios, which one of the top studios in Manhattan. And they got this place over two floors with a rooftop as well. And I was doing a campaign for Weller there, their summer campaign. basically, we'd done the shoot for the day. We had about three or four models left over. I said, quick guys, let's go upstairs. The sunset is stunning.

Steve Vaughan (40:04)
I'm sure.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (40:29)
and just going upstairs and seeing a sunset and then photo buffing with the models with a beauty dish, you know, just for myself, which that was very nice. I did enjoy that.

Steve Vaughan (40:35)
Amazing.

Nick Church (40:36)
boy.

Well as a hair products, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Steve Vaughan (40:39)
Not bad.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (40:41)
Yes, very much so. Her color, color is what well I'm

known for. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that

Steve Vaughan (40:45)
⁓

Nick Church (40:46)
wow.

Steve Vaughan (40:47)
After that Nick Swindon registry office will never say the same again will it? Even as I said. Marcus it's been great having you on. Thank you ever so much. We could have chatted for hours. ⁓ Nick and I normally have sort of four or five minutes wind up to the show. Please hang around, chip in as you wish.

Nick Church (40:50)
Even at sunset.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (40:53)
Thank you.

Nick Church (40:56)
indeed.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (41:03)
Okay, I'll do that. I'm

disappearing. I'm getting very dark here, isn't it? It's getting... The summer evenings are drawing in, aren't they? that's perfect.

Steve Vaughan (41:08)
It's okay. It's okay. We're audio only at the moment. So that's fine. ⁓

Nick Church (41:08)
You

But if this becomes a,

once I get my bumming gear about the YouTube videos and get those edited, this one will just look like we're gradually fading markers away because I'm yeah.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (41:21)
And I've got to go back over to the distance over here. Yes.

Steve Vaughan (41:23)
And of course we're not, of course we're not.

yeah, fascinating stuff, lovely. Thank you. Thanks so much, Marcus.

Nick Church (41:28)
Yeah, thanks a Marcus.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (41:28)
Thanks

guys, lovely to meet you. I look forward to get you on our podcast as well, Nick.

Nick Church (41:31)
Yeah, I can't wait.

Steve Vaughan (41:33)
I'm available too. Yeah. No, I'm kidding. So going back to my day in Birmingham yesterday, unfortunately I did get the credit card out as well. It's your fault Nick Church. Cause you put the idea in my head, actually put the idea in Sam's head actually. So we bought a used 90 mil macro.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (41:34)
And I said, I can't, as soon as I said that, I knew that I was gonna come back.

Nick Church (41:43)
Mmm.

why's that?

⁓ what did you buy?

they're great. They are beautiful lenses. Yeah.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (41:57)
my favourite lens.

Steve Vaughan (41:58)
We owned

an odd with the Tamron, but we bought a U Sony in the end. Yeah. Yeah. So the G yeah. Yeah.

Nick Church (42:02)
The G 2.8G, yeah, they're

incredible. And they're brilliant portrait lenses as well. They're so super sharp. I think it's the sharpest lens I've got. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (42:08)
Well, that's partly it, but also Sam likes to photograph the rings and things and perhaps we

Marcus Ahmad Photography (42:08)
If.

Steve Vaughan (42:12)
can do a better job doing that. it was 650 used and we can probably flog it and we finally won't things up. Do you use a macro tool Marcus?

Nick Church (42:18)
Yeah.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (42:19)
I, it's my favorite lens, as I said,

I've got the ⁓ 105mm 2.8 Nikon macro, which is, and when I go on holiday, that's the lens I take. That's the only lens I take when I go on holiday, because...

Steve Vaughan (42:24)
Right.

Interesting.

What?

Nick Church (42:32)
God,

that does not sound like a travel lens. Like a quite heavy version of a 105 even, you know.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (42:35)
I know, isn't it funny, but it's...

It is heavy.

well, look, if you're going to, yeah, the reason being is because your phone is so good at doing wide angles, isn't it? So there's no point doing that. So and the 105 is you can do close up really nice macro, you know, or long distance like and you get and there's nice compression on it is a good compression on that lens.

Nick Church (42:45)
Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that is a good show, actually.

Steve Vaughan (42:45)
That's a good point, yeah.

Yeah.

Nick Church (42:56)
Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (42:57)
It's a good idea

that is, yeah. Cause I missed him. did think I talked a while ago on this podcast, I was going to buy the little Sigma 90 millimeter for street photography, but obviously I won't now. I'm not going to buy another lens of the same focal length, but it's more enough to put in the bag for like a day out. You can get away with that and a small zoom and I've got a nice little setup really. That was my reason and a way to justify it to Sam, although she wanted it as well. Yeah. Yeah.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (43:17)
Yes, that's good lens. I've heard on

previous episode, Steve, that you're really into street photography. That's your... Yeah. Yes.

Steve Vaughan (43:24)
I love it. I love looking at street photography. I wouldn't

say I was necessarily any good at it, but it's something I enjoy as much as anything, Mark, because it gets me out really. It gets me out of this little office where I spend so much time either with the B2B training courses I run or photography. And I can go and spend an afternoon in London. can walk for 10 miles. I might not take anything any good, but it gets me out. Thank you.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (43:44)
beautiful. ⁓ I bet you do.

Nick Church (43:47)
You do take some great street shots, Mr. Mr.

Bloomin. What's it called? When you're being

Marcus Ahmad Photography (43:54)
A street photographer, a flaneur, a flaneur is the word it's called. A flaneur.

Steve Vaughan (43:54)
Ninja.

Nick Church (43:55)
No, no, yeah, no,

Steve Vaughan (43:58)
Yeah.

Nick Church (43:59)
I was thinking anyway, go on. Yeah, my, I've had a small. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (44:01)
You've go with the random workings of Nick's mind.

Yes, I enjoy it. False modesty.

Nick Church (44:08)
Modesty, false modesty. There it is. Yeah, that's my bro.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (44:10)
It's the best way,

I always talk about, if you want to learn, do cross platforms. So if you're one thing like wedding photography, go and do still life photography. But street photography is the best way of learning any type of photography, because it's the best way of getting your eye and your finger as it were in tune, isn't it? It's great for your muscle, mind, I can't think that word, you know what I mean? Observation.

Steve Vaughan (44:16)
Mm.

Agreed.

Nick Church (44:33)
Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (44:34)
It's great for observational

stuff as well. know, the picture of my head right now, which I've talked about often, is a picture I won an award for, and that's street photography wedding photo. It's out of focus, I know you can't see it. sometimes I'll just... put it? No, no, no. Well, it is actually, it is slightly out of focus. ⁓

Nick Church (44:47)
photo is not our focus. The photo is not our focus. just, it's just, it's just, it is in this, in this, but that's the

point, isn't it? It's the, it's very much a moment, isn't it? And with street photography, the technical, you know, it's a time where the absolute, isn't the absolute pinnacle of technical excellence. It's not, not what it's about. It's about getting, you know, with, with less kit, more, more maneuverable kit and, just, just getting that capture, you know, capturing life as it happens.

Steve Vaughan (44:58)
moment trumps everything really yeah

Marcus Ahmad Photography (45:08)
yes.

almost definitely.

Steve Vaughan (45:15)
Yeah.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (45:16)
And of course, down here in Bristol, we've got Martin Parr, of course, who is the Uber documentary photographer.

Steve Vaughan (45:20)
My hero.

Nick Church (45:23)
Absolutely,

yeah.

Steve Vaughan (45:24)
And going back

full circle to what we started the show with, my late brother, when he retired as a proper policeman, became a pretend policeman at the Black Country Museum. He used to dress up as Victorian policeman at the Black Country Museum in Dudley, which is an open air living museum. And Martin Parr did a book on the Black Country and he took a photo of my brother. it's a, I'll link it in the show notes. It's on my wall here. actually...

Marcus Ahmad Photography (45:31)
Mm-hmm.

yes, that's right.

Nick Church (45:45)
I did it. ⁓ excellent.

Steve Vaughan (45:50)
Nautily and apologies to Martin, I'm sure you're not listening, but if you are, I borrowed your picture for a day for my Facebook profile, but it's a picture of my brother in a Victorian police uniform and there's all these kids playing around him and he's kind of looking at the distance and it's a brilliant photo. I treasure it because obviously it's my late brother as well. so yeah, yeah. I Martin Parr, having to do Martin Parr's work. Amazing. I have done. Yeah, I have done.

Nick Church (46:02)
nice, yeah

Marcus Ahmad Photography (46:03)
yes, it's a... ⁓

Yes.

Do you go to his foundation at all Nick, to stand the road? You've been, yeah, yeah.

Nick Church (46:09)
Mmm.

I

don't. Yeah, no, haven't. Down at Paintworks, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, no, I haven't. haven't. I must do. Yeah.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (46:15)
Yeah, it's just literally just around the corner for me. yeah, and I like, yes, it's well worth it. He's got, yeah, it's

well worth it.

Steve Vaughan (46:21)
I sense a day out coming up actually. Yeah, why don't we all go sometime? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I can go and see my daughter as well.

Nick Church (46:23)
Mm.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (46:23)
Yeah, well, if you do, I'll join up with you guys. It's very nice down there. Yeah, he's

Nick Church (46:26)
Excellent. Excellent. Yeah.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (46:30)
he's still shooting. just he's I think he's in his mid 70s now. And he's still shooting the front cover for Vogue magazine. It's Italian Vogue. He did it a few weeks ago. Can you believe that?

Steve Vaughan (46:38)
Amazing.

There's this series is on the black country also made a video. I don't know how much video work is ever done, but you can find it on YouTube if you search for it. So there's a famous sweet shop in the black country called Grays, Teddy Grays, and they buy, make little bags of like herbal mints and things. You get them at petrol stations and stuff. And he went to the factory. I think it was 2008. He went to the factory. And I'm no kidding. You've got like 15 guys carrying this stick of rock.

Nick Church (46:58)
Mm.

Steve Vaughan (47:05)
around the factory, everything's done by hand. And it was run, I don't know if they're still alive now, but it was run by a brother and sister and they're in the office. And in the office, you've never seen so much paper piled up on a desk. And forgive the accent and apologies, but I am actually from that part of the world, so I can get away with this. They're going, oh, no, we don't have a fax machine. We don't need one of them. No, nor a computer. No, we'll do all of them for. If you get chance to watch, it's only about 20 minutes long, guys. Check it out. It's a brilliant video. Brilliant.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (47:06)
I love that. I bet he loves that.

Nick Church (47:30)
come on.

Steve Vaughan (47:35)
We've digressed wildly, no, it's brilliant video.

Nick Church (47:36)
Yeah, all right.

that's we've got a London's photography photo wall gathering on the in the the planning to do list. Plus now a trip down to the Martin Parr paintworks in Bristol. Yeah. Excellent.

Steve Vaughan (47:43)
We need to get that sorted, yeah.

Let's do it. Let's do it. Yeah. And one last

thing before we wrap up, guess right now, as in not now, but as in when the podcast is live, you're lying on a beach somewhere. So you're on holiday. So where are going?

Nick Church (48:02)
I'm going to Croatia, going to split. Yeah. ⁓ I'm not very good at holidays, you know, I've just been rubbish at it. Is it in my mind, it's like, ⁓ I think it's the way other people must think about work. So I'm thinking, ⁓ damn it. I've got to do this. I've got to on holiday next week. So rather than thinking of fantastic and opportunities to do nothing, I'm thinking, man, I'm going to have this whole chunk of time where I can't do it, but I can't do the things I want to get done.

Steve Vaughan (48:04)
fabulous. ⁓ great.

Nick Church (48:29)
And then when I'm there, I always have a really nice time, but it does kind of interfere with the looking forward to it bit.

Steve Vaughan (48:29)
Wow.

Wow, are you into creation,

Marcus?

Marcus Ahmad Photography (48:36)
You're going to spit, did I hear you saying? Yes, I've been there, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Steve Vaughan (48:38)
Yeah.

Nick Church (48:38)
Going to split, yeah. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (48:41)
And we were there earlier this year, we were there

in June, very close to split.

Nick Church (48:43)
And you can

apparently, um, Dawn says we can get down to Dubrovnik, but it's like a five hour. It's a five hour ferry journey. So we'd have to do that for a night and stay at, stay down there for a night. So we're not sure if we'll do that. We might do, cause I would like to there as well. So a country that I don't know if we would go back there again. So it'd be a shame to not be able to go and see Dubrovnik, but it would then mean we're paying for hotel somewhere, but we've already paid for one in split, you know, but we'll see.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (48:48)
the Puffenix. Yeah, that's a long way.

Steve Vaughan (48:49)
It's a long way.

Yeah.

If you want

to ride out, we stayed in a place called Omish, that's M-O-M-I-S and that's about half an hour on the bus from Split on the coast and it's quite a nice little town, big enough to have like an old quarter and bars and restaurants and they do whitewater rafting and all that kind of stuff if you're into it as well. So yeah, I recommend it. yeah, Omish.

Nick Church (49:15)
Okay.

⁓ nice.

Hmm. I'm not going to get a door in a white water raft. When we went kayaking

in Vietnam, we almost ended up being divorced, I think by the end of it. And we're not even married. It was that bad. said, yes. Yeah. I'm sure, I'm sure I will be, this is, this is melting my brain a bit now, the time aspect here, but I'm sure I'm, I'm sure I'm having a really nice time. will take my laptop. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (49:33)
Sorry, Dawn. Well, we hope you have a wonderful time, anyway. We hope you're having a wonderful time when this goes live.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (49:34)
dear.

Yes, indeed we do.

Steve Vaughan (49:44)
Yeah, don't take any work with you. Don't take a laptop.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (49:47)
You'll have a great time.

Next year in March, I'm doing a workshop in Mexico, San Miguel de Allende in Mexico, three day workshop platform branding photographers. yes, so maybe you need to do that. Combine your holidays with doing a workshop that you know.

Steve Vaughan (49:55)
Wow.

Nick Church (50:03)
It's a good show. Yeah. That is on. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's on, Mark's website. Yeah. So you can go find that through the tuition ⁓ bit master class, master class, Mexico. You want to head head towards. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (50:03)
Is that live on your website or anything? Is there something we can link to? ⁓ we'll link to that as well.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (50:05)
It's just come up, yeah, it is come up, yeah.

Steve Vaughan (50:12)
Fantastic.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (50:14)
It's a most stunning place. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (50:17)
Sounds great. Yeah.

Yeah. Well for that certainly. So Marcus, once again, thanks for coming on the podcast. Great to virtually meet you as they say. I'll definitely be following your podcast as well. And it sounds like we've got a day coming up for a trip into Bristol as well in the near future. Any fast last comments from you Nick, before we wrap up.

Marcus Ahmad Photography (50:22)
Thanks guys.

Lovely.

Nick Church (50:33)
No,

that's it. That's it. I've talked enough nonsense for one evening, I think. Yep. All right. Thanks a lot, Marcus. I'll catch up with you soon. See you later.

Steve Vaughan (50:37)
Enjoy your beer in Croatia. Thanks a lot Marcus. Thanks for listening to

Marcus Ahmad Photography (50:41)
Cheers guys, over and out.

Steve Vaughan (50:43)
us dear Lister. Don't forget if you've enjoyed the show to follow us on YouTube. Although we're not doing late tubes at the moment but we're still there in audio if not in photo, in video mode. There are plenty of episodes on there. But the main thing is to check us out on Apple or Spotify and leave us a review if you can on there. does help us in lots of weird and wonderful ways. We'll be back again once Nick's come back from his lovely holiday in

Nick Church (50:53)
And there's still plenty of episodes on there for people to knock through. There's still about 10 or so.

Steve Vaughan (51:06)
In the meantime, happy shooting out there and we'll talk to you soon.