The Photography Pod

JPG vs Raw vs DNG; what to use and when, plus film simulations on a Sony?

Steve Vaughan and Nick Church Season 2 Episode 25

Steve and Nick are both now fully into wedding season, but Nick manages to fit in a trip to Ireland before the season gets crazy! The guys discuss the pros and cons of shooting JPG's professionally, and should you convert your propriety raw files into DNG.  Steve has been using film simulation JPG's on his Ricoh GR3x and Samantha's X100VI, and discusses the merits of Sony film simulations. They discuss the new Sony RX1R III, and who is it for, and some of the wierdest requests they have had at a wedding. 

Topics in the show:

Sony RX1R III https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/cyber-shot-compact-cameras/dsc-rx1rm3

Elgato Prompter https://www.elgato.com/uk/en/p/prompter

Sony Film Simulation Recipes https://www.veresdenialex.com/post/sony-film-simulations-recipes-best-sony-picture-profiles

Nick Church and Steve Vaughan are professional wedding photographers based in the UK. They both use Sony Alpha cameras and lenses.

Video version of the Podcast including slide shows of images https://www.youtube.com/@thephotographypod

Nick's website : https://www.nickchurchphotography.co.uk/
Nick's Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/nickchurchphotography/

Nick Church Creative Academy https://www.nickchurchphotography.co.uk/news/introducing-nick-church-creative-academy


Steve's website : https://www.samandstevephotography.com/
Steve's Wedding Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/samandstevephotography/
Steve's personal Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/stevevaughanphotography



Any technical information given by the presenters is based on their understanding and opinion at the time of recording

Steve Vaughan (00:01)
Nick, what's the weirdest thing you've ever been asked to do at a wedding?

Nick Church (00:04)
Probably the weirdest is, and I don't think I've mentioned it the pod before, was a couple that were insistent that I had my wedding meal with them, with their guests, rather than being, as we all love to do, stuck in a dark room somewhere, just having it, know, eating around. And it became apparent about an hour before that they met on their head table. So it was the bride in the groom, the two parents, best man, and me sat at their table. No.

Steve Vaughan (00:20)
Yeah, Chilling.

Really?

And did you know them at all? Were they related?

⁓ gosh. I'd hate that.

Nick Church (00:34)
No, so was bloody awkward. it was, um,

Oh yeah. You know, small talk. I'm not a massive fan of small talk and then doing small talk with the person next to me is best man. Yeah. Really nice guy. And then the bride, so I said all the usual stuff about where I live, where I'm from and all that. And the brides, the bridesmaids said, Oh, hello. I'm so, she said, where are from? said, well, I'm from, and did the same thing about four times. And then luckily got out of earshot.

Steve Vaughan (00:42)
Yeah.

Nick Church (01:01)
So didn't have to, it was impractical to have a conversation after about four people. So I had to end it there, but it's bad.

Steve Vaughan (01:03)
Gosh.

How you know the bride and groom? you are the bride and groom.

That's weird. can't imagine why anybody would want to have... I mean, no disrespect, mate, but why would want anybody, photographer on the top table? Who's taking photos of the photographer?

Nick Church (01:13)
Well, though,

if exactly that was the big concern, I thought I was going to do a speech at one point, but it was very lovely. I mean, from their point of view, it was the biggest, the most generous thing they could offer, which I was really, it was really nice. Um, but they probably, you know, if, if you're an introvert photographer, it's kind of the worst, the worst thing you could offer somebody.

Steve Vaughan (01:19)
That's bizarre.

Yeah, now I can see that.

Yeah,

I must admit I hate having to sit. I know it sounds sounds ungrateful. I hate being asked to sit with the guests because it's a downtime where you can go and just chill, you know, copy some pictures if you need to just do something and just have a bit of downtime, isn't it rather than to make polite small talk? Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Church (01:47)
Yeah. And especially at the moment,

if you shot weddings recently in the, in this heat, the last few, and that's, that's tough, isn't it? And it really takes it out of you and you need a bit of time just to cool off and drink loads of water. Yeah. Steve two shirts form.

Steve Vaughan (01:53)
yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is.

Two shirts, mate, Toys Works.

I actually

do own more than two shirts to be honest. was just taking two shirts to the wedding. I think the strangest thing we've ever been asked to do was photograph ferret racing. Have I mentioned that? Yeah, it was a wedding. So they're very sort of country folk. And in fact, we've done four weddings from this one wedding. So, know, the large family, but also friends as well. again, I'm absolutely not complaining, but...

One of the things they'd arranged was ferret racing for the entertainment for the guests. and it was really, really, really sort of competitive. People were backing on different ferrets. I don't know if they were actually gambling with all the sobriety. But I got this one photo, on our website, where the ferrets just coming out and the one woman celebrating at the same time. There's a bottle of champagne there. And I don't know if it's quite a fearless award. I don't know, but it was weird. I don't think I've ever had that before.

Nick Church (02:50)
jockeys must have been tiny. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds like an activity that that Jay, our abandoned buildings photographer would come across in the in the backwaters of the Midwest somewhere.

Steve Vaughan (02:52)
They were absolutely tiny, yeah, the size of amoebas, yeah.

It would sound exactly like that.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly like that. Shall we start the show?

Nick Church (03:09)
Yeah, why not.

Steve Vaughan (03:10)
So hello and welcome again to the photography part, a podcast for both working professionals and enthusiast photographers alike. My name is Steve Vaughan and once again, I'm here with my good mate, Church. So Nick, a couple of weeks since we last spoke, what you've been up to?

Nick Church (03:22)
I've been traveling around Ireland with Dawn. So that was lovely. was, um, holiday. Yep. Yep. Peel your holiday. Um, we started, we, we got the ferry from Liverpool over to Belfast, then drove up to Giants Causeway. I stayed there, stayed in Bushmills. Oh, I, I said to you that I wasn't interested in, in going and see the whiskey talks. don't like Irish or Scotch whiskey. And you were, um, yeah, thought, thought it was a Finnerstein cause I just liked Jack Daniels.

Steve Vaughan (03:25)
⁓ holiday rather than work? brilliant.

Amazing.

⁓ yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Nick Church (03:51)
So we didn't do that, but we did do Giants Causeway. So I got some nice pictures and wandered around there. Then we went to Belfast, down to Dublin. It's not, but it was fascinating. But it was good and we went, yeah, just some good walking and ended up right south of Cork on a place called Inchydonia Island, which was a sort of hotel. And the weather by that point had got really hot. So it was just beautiful beach, beautiful sea, really nice view days.

Steve Vaughan (03:58)
Not as big as people think it is, it, when you get there, Giants Causeway? You think, no, it's amazing, but it's not as big as you think, yeah.

All right.

Beaches on the west coast of

Ireland are incredible. For the two days a year when the weather's not chucking it down. I don't mean that if you're listening to it in Ireland by the way. But no, there are amazing beaches on the west coast. I took my mother there 40 plus years ago with my first wife. yeah, amazing beaches. Yeah, beautiful.

Nick Church (04:19)
Yeah, couldn't believe it. Like Caribbean beaches. Absolutely stunning. Well, that's right.

And

I did a scientific sampling of Guinness from Northern Ireland all the way through. it was consistently good all the way down. I'm not sure that I could say that I, you people will say Guinness in Ireland's just a different, it tastes pretty much the same to me.

Steve Vaughan (04:41)
okay.

It is. No, it is. Well,

I think to be fair, the Guinness weekend in the UK is made in Ireland now. used to be made in North London and it tasted like it. Yeah. Again, let's offend half the population of the UK as well now. So sorry if you come from North London. I haven't been to, well, I've been to Ireland a lot over the years on business. I remember going to Northern Ireland once when I used to sell scientific equipment. And in fact, it was the height of the troubles.

Nick Church (04:56)
Right, okay, come at the Thames

Yeah, who else should we alienate?

Steve Vaughan (05:15)
so mid-90s it would have been. And I had to resell a distributor, the guy's still going actually, Bobby Schart, top of the morning Bobby for listening. And I had to go and take some equipment over to measure the pH, you know, the pH acidity of a carcass of meat, which is a way of telling how, you know, fit for consumption it is really. So the idea is you stick this electrode into a carcass of meat. I want to gesture because if you're on the audio version, you won't see what I'm doing, but still.

So I had to fly over from Birmingham Airport to Belfast at the height of these troubles with this bullet-shaped electrode in my carry-on. That took some explaining at the height of the troubles, I have to say, but I managed to get through. But love Ireland, love travelling around Ireland. I remember... ⁓ it's brilliant.

Nick Church (05:54)
I bet it did.

It was interesting in Belfast, I must admit I was

very ignorant of the political history around sort of the 80s, 90s. It's just not something that, you know, apart from watching movies and things, but seeing the peace walls that we drove past, you know, and how the British have kind of really damaged that whole, the whole island of Ireland, you know, it's just, you know, it was quite emotional really, but.

Steve Vaughan (06:07)
this year.

I that's another topic for another day and this isn't the rest is history, but I know what you mean. it's a, there's a lot of history. think one of the things about Ireland is history and they have plenty of it. I just want to be.

Nick Church (06:28)
Indeed.

Yeah.

But one thing that happened

was we were in this, Island in, this South, Southeast Cork and had beautiful, these Caribbean type beaches on one side, lagoons, and it went round to a sort of natural harbor and, and don't have the idea of let's walk around. Let's walk around. took about an hour. And I wasn't sure of the route and you know, this commute, know, those, apps where, yeah, I have to stingy to pay for the 7.99 to get the thing. So I thought I could.

Steve Vaughan (06:55)
I lose it all the time. It's brilliant. Yeah.

Nick Church (07:01)
I could infer from the thumbnail of the route where we're going. So I just followed the, I thought let's just follow the beach around. And this, the tide was out when we left and this very flat looking like a natural harbor that became very marshy muddy with, in the other side of the island. We were walking around that and it took longer and longer and there was no way to get onto the land. And then we saw the tide start to come in and I was starting to get a little bit worried.

But luckily Dawn wasn't annoyed at all. She just found it really hilarious. And so that was a really chilled out walk. So we finally got into literally on dry land and we're quite relieved to have beaten the tide. that was, we, yeah. Well, as, as she wrote, and she was right to be annoyed because she did say that's exactly the sort of thing that we take the Mickey out of people in Cleveland or Western that get stuck in the mud because they're out walking like idiots and pay attention to the locals and the geography.

Steve Vaughan (07:29)
just as well.

You got to be careful that's a bit of an ocean that one out there. Yeah.

That app,

other walking apps are available, but that Komoot app I really like because it talks to you and tells you when to turn and all that stuff.

Nick Church (07:54)
No, it is good, yeah.

I do have a free trial for it and

I've done a few walks with it and it is great. It makes a difference.

Steve Vaughan (08:03)
It is good. Yeah. Yeah.

I haven't done any more of the Oxfordshire way since we last spoke, by the way, because I haven't had a chance, but I'm planning to do the next four or five legs. I should be using it this weekend because I've got a weekend away with my son this weekend. So my son's getting married in September and he's the first of our five kids that we've got between us, and I, both from our previous marriages. He's the youngest and we probably thought, and don't tell this to my Matthew for listening, but we thought he might be the last to get married, but he's the first and he's getting married up in

Worcestershire on September the 27th and we're having a dad and son mini stag do this weekend. So we're up to the Peak District and we're going to do a bit of walking. So I will be in the commuter app around Bakewell around that way. And then we plan to finish up at the Thornbridge Brewery, which is a brew pub and brew, well, proper brewery, but with a tap and everything. And that might get a bit messy. So that might be the end of the weekend, but we will be using it for that. So.

Nick Church (08:39)
great.

Yeah. Yeah.

Great.

Steve Vaughan (09:00)
Yeah, and our good friend and Fujifilm ambassador Emily Renier is going to photograph that for us. well, I might take a camera, but I don't plan to use it, which I plan to get drunk.

Nick Church (09:05)
great. Yeah.

It's always tough,

isn't it? you, if you, I've decided now, nowadays, if it's a family birthday, I just prefer not to take my camera even because the expectation, seems like it seems unreasonable to take a camera and not document the whole thing. And then you can't enjoy it because you're, know, we're, we're, we're used to, if we're going to take photos, we want to take good photos. You want to capture everything. So you either, it's all or nothing, isn't it?

Steve Vaughan (09:18)
No.

Yeah, no, it's work.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. And that kind of needs me on it's one of the first things I wanted to talk about today, actually very neatly segwayed Nick, as if we meant it. that is shooting JPEGs. I know we spoke about this a while now with your Fujifilm cameras, but shooting JPEGs for fun. And we'll come on to film Sims and things in a little while, but have you ever shot JPEG professionally at a gig, as an event or for any reason? Ah.

Nick Church (09:54)
Only by accident. that was, that

was with my, the first camera I started shooting professional with, with Nikon D750 that had a, the image format button was you couldn't override it with something else. So it became quite popular just to tape it up or remove it, you know, get rid of it. Cause it was so easy to press it and you were told we'll through the different things. So I knocked it into, luckily fine quality JPEG, for a role, but yeah, other than that, but it's fine. You know, I don't think.

Steve Vaughan (10:01)
All right.

Mm.

OK.

Nick Church (10:21)
I'm sure people wouldn't have noticed the difference, but it was a bit of a pain to edit. And if I'm going to do that on the Fuji, for example, with a decent recipe in there, then you are, you're actually leaning into that and getting that camera look into the JPEG. And that's, I think that's where the benefits are.

Steve Vaughan (10:32)
Yeah.

Well, I think it was pros and cons. we did for quite a while. So when we were shooting Fujifilm professionally going back seven, eight years now, obviously, you know, we'll come onto this, but one of the things about the Fujifilm camera is the great JPEGs they produce. And I think a number of people like Kevin Mullins were shooting JPEG at the time. And I thought, well, you know, let's give it a go really. to be honest, kind of, I say got away with it, it was the wrong way of looking at it, but it worked. You know, it worked. But obviously the risk you take is, you know, if you need to do a lot of

Nick Church (11:01)
Mm.

Steve Vaughan (11:05)
editing on the photos you can't pull them around like you can with a raw file but I do know a few photographers who do. Do know David Stubbs up in the Manchester area? I'm pretty sure he shoots JPEG. He's a very successful wedding photographer. I think obviously the... Go on.

Nick Church (11:09)
That's right.

Hmm.

I've had the name, yeah. Yeah.

For said, if you, if you like

the look of the, the camera edit that it gives the JPEG, then I think that's, I think it makes sense. And like you say, as we get more, as you improve in photography and you're making less errors, fewer errors, then you're, you aren't needing to stretch those JPEGs as far as you would, as you would before. But the problem for me is, right. So I think we do overstate the advantage of the dynamic, the actual dynamic range and detail you get in raw. think that's a bit overstated, but the problem with shooting just JPEG.

Steve Vaughan (11:24)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

Nick Church (11:48)
Unless it's a look you've gone for in like a Fuji or something like that is the fact that it is editing the photo and it's harder than stamp your, your own. Yeah. And, because every scene with the color science, and I'm sure this is increasing, uh, with AI and so on that it's identifying what's in the scene and adjusting the image edits to suit, to suit that scene. So it is a very blue sky. It's going to over saturate that that makes it really difficult to them to bang in a preset in Lightroom and your consistent look into it.

Steve Vaughan (11:56)
It's burnt in, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah.

Mm. Yeah.

don't think you could.

No, I don't think you could because it would just completely turn everything into 11, really, wouldn't it? And of course the white balance is burnt in as well. was the other challenge we'd face as well. So I know a lot of photographers are warred. So people like sports photographers, for example, or I guess press photographers, those kinds of things where you've got to get the image to the newspaper, or if they still do that these days, or the website or whatever, and you've just got to get that image straight away. Exactly.

Nick Church (12:21)
Yeah.

upload it immediately from your laptop, shoot

your medium, and then you can capture what sort of 30, 20, 30 shots per second on a, on a one or something. And yeah, it's worth it for that for sure.

Steve Vaughan (12:49)
Exactly.

Yeah, I think for our kind of work, I think it'd be challenging if you do shoot JPEG at winnings. I'd love to hear from you actually, anybody that still does that. mean, you know, there's a no offence member, there's you know, the 300 quid shoot and burn guys who all, you know, just tear it up for 300 quid and shoot the photos and JPEG and then send them to the couple next day. mean, you know, I'm talking about people who are perhaps slightly better than that. And I mean, no offence by that.

Nick Church (13:17)
Well, we,

I was going to, I was going to say, we're going to talk a bit later about, um, things we'll do differently, but we've, we've shared some truly horrendous photography in our private WhatsApp, WhatsApp chat. Absolutely. And it makes you realize that this idea that you have to be a great photographer is way off the mark. And these people are making a, they're presumably they're running a living, but they must be ripping them out really quickly. JPEGs, um, virtually

Steve Vaughan (13:30)
Yeah, no names.

Nick Church (13:46)
Not edited, I'm guessing. But it's one way to go, whether it's a way that gives you creative fulfillment. I wouldn't have thought so.

Steve Vaughan (13:54)
think it's a, you know, something that's easy to be snobbish about. And I know we've, we've had a little giggle, some of the things that we've shared. My wife loves finding out interesting wedding photographers, shall we say, but to put the other side of it, guess, really, you know, times are tough, know, inflation and cost of living and everything else. And if you're, are getting married and you are on a budget, I guess the choice you have really is, do you have a photographer just for a couple of hours? You know, I've done a few of those jobs recently where I've just done a couple of hours of

photography for a couple, you know, just the ceremony, a few groups and things, or do you pay that same amount of money for somebody that possibly isn't quite so good? But you get them for, for a longer period and perhaps you get your photos within day. I guess it's like anything really, there's, there's a product for every price range really, you know.

Nick Church (14:40)
But some of these guys, Steve, you could give the, give you a camera to that ferret in the race and they would pull out some better shots than some of these things. And I get that. think there is, and I'm very much, but with, with the, coaching clients I work with, I'm very much a strong kind of the image quality isn't what it's all about. It's about marketing your brand and that passion and stuff. But there is a low bar and that low bar has to be, I think at best you have to be better than someone could do with their iPhone or a sort of 200 quid camera. And some of these that we've seen.

Steve Vaughan (14:48)
Love it.

No, you say that. Yeah.

Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah.

Nick Church (15:08)
That isn't the case. So I mean, kudos to them, I suppose, for being able to eke out a business there with a product that isn't great. other, photography is a funny industry because there's not many other fields where there's such a variety in capability. A builder, if they're terrible, are on watchdog, aren't they? Or whatever the equivalent is. That's a good reference for the youngsters.

Steve Vaughan (15:31)
Watchdog. Do you rip off Britain

would be the one now these days with Angela Rippon and all that lot? Not like watching daytime telly, dear listener.

Nick Church (15:39)
But,

if you just literally couldn't build a garage, then you wouldn't get any work. But I suppose it's this thing of most wedding couples, like any other genre of photography, where people aren't likely to be in any way on top of photography or an expert in it. They don't know what they're looking at. And so they are going to spend the money and that, and that is a danger. And that's, that's where we see in these Facebook groups of

Steve Vaughan (15:54)
Yeah.

Nick Church (15:59)
people being let down and all these other things, because people just got no, they got no data points to be able to try and decide between a photographer. Because if you can't look at the images and think that one's loads better than that one. So if you can't see the difference there, what do you go on? Do you go on price or personality? And so if you're good at those other two things and you can get the gig and it can be a frustration for people that have really slogging hard and working on their craft.

Steve Vaughan (16:06)
Not true.

So the beauty of the feature film JPEGs, as you said, in your XT5 that you've got really is the recipes really. So we've spoken a bit about this now. So have you had a chance to play with those at all in recent times?

Nick Church (16:35)
Yeah,

well, I've got the one that, um, Jan, who was on the last episode, uh, he, shared, shared that recipe. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And that, that does it for me. I'm quite happy with that. I've looked at the other ones, but I do love that one. And it's not something that I've had time yet to go through and to be, to be quite frank, when we went to Ireland, it was only then that I realized that my camera had survived the drop test I did in London. So was the first time I'd used it properly since then. So that was.

Steve Vaughan (16:37)
⁓ Yeah, the radio ballesteros one.

I wasn't going to mention that, but now you've mentioned it.

Nick Church (17:04)
I didn't drop it in Ireland, so maybe Ireland is lucky for me.

Steve Vaughan (17:06)
well done.

Nick Church (17:07)
But yeah, so I hadn't had loads of time, but those JPEGs are coming out that are really nice. I mean, for certain things, not so much landscape for me, but any kind of scene with very delicate lighting, like a wedding venue inside sort of shot with nice side lights coming through a window. It creates a really lovely sort of slightly lifted blacks, a slightly matte effect, but not overly done. Really like it.

Steve Vaughan (17:25)
Yeah, yeah.

It's a lot of fun playing with them. So I stole Sam's X106 this Saturday. We didn't have a wedding this Saturday. And I mentioned on the last show that we'd been to Bosnia while we're on holiday in Croatia. And I've been doing a lot of reading around the Bosnia war and stuff. And it was 30 years the week just gone since the Srebrenica genocide where over 8,000 Muslim men were well murdered.

and just googling around, I noticed there was a walk in London in commemoration for it. I thought I'd quite like to go to that. So I did, I got trained down. I have absolutely no personal connection with it whatsoever. It's just something I'd read about really. And I took the X106 and I found a recipe on the Fuji Weekly app. And it was supposed to have a likeness to the old Fujifilm 160 film stock. just...

bungled it all in on the train going down. And I really like what came out of it really. And I was going to take a snap to work with a proper photographers there on the day. I'm not a proper photographer, but you know what I mean. I just have my, I wasn't planning to take pictures of the day, but I shared a few with them anyway. they're like, thank you.

Nick Church (18:33)
You're very much a proper photographer.

How many parameters are there per recipe?

Steve Vaughan (18:38)
There's loads actually, depends how much you want to play with really. So, you know, obviously there's the film simulation, the wide balance, highlight shadows, there's things like the color chrome. don't fully understand all of them, I'll be honest. The one that can cause some problems, I don't know if you found it yourself, is if you put a clarity setting in there, apparently you can take a couple of seconds for the picture to be processed then in the camera.

Nick Church (19:01)
really? Okay.

Steve Vaughan (19:02)
So if you were going to take

pictures on a rapid burst, would then be a problem. there's probably about 10. Yeah. It's a lot of fun. Yeah.

Nick Church (19:08)
Okay. Are

they copyrighted? Are they licensed by like, if I brought up a recipe, is it a copyrighted element or asset?

Steve Vaughan (19:18)
That's a good

question. I don't know really. mean, people sell presets, but yeah.

Nick Church (19:19)
Cause it's always interesting things like this. Yeah.

I mean, I always found it funny that fonts are, you know, licensable and you can't copy them even though they're essentially just blocks of about eight by 24 pixels, you know, with some filled in some not. And, so it's, I wonder if that's a similar thing that. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (19:32)
bitmaps. Yeah.

I don't know.

mean, people do sell downloadable sheets of recipes, I think. ⁓ But I don't know. mean, the Fujifilm or Fuji weekly app, should I say, is free. But if you want to use it more, you have to pay like 20 quid a year for it. ⁓ I was playing around also and looking for anybody that did Sony film simulations, because obviously we're shooting Sonys and the JPEGs aren't bad. It's not fun, really.

Nick Church (19:44)
Yeah.

Okay.

Steve Vaughan (20:05)
And I found a site, I think the guy is Romanian. I can't remember his name, but I will link to it in the show notes. But you know the picture profiles on Sony cameras, which are meant really more for video. He uses those. So he plays around with all kinds of things. I don't understand, like the knee and everything else. And uses those to come up with some film simulations. They're a bit funky, but you know, they're out there. So if anybody's listening to us that shoots Sony and wants to play around with film sims, I'll link to the guy.

Nick Church (20:13)
Yeah, that video. Yeah. Okay.

Steve Vaughan (20:32)
He's got a YouTube channel and everything else and, and, you know, good luck to him really.

Nick Church (20:36)
Whenever I've looked

into those picture profiles, always, there seems to be about a 50-50 split of opinion about whether it affects your rules or not. The rules do look different, but whether you can bend them to be the same, I don't know. It's an interesting.

Steve Vaughan (20:44)
I think it does. I think it does.

I don't know for fact but I'm pretty sure it does I always make sure my picture profile is off when I'm shooting RAW This is what I'm using now is picture profile 11 which is S-Cinetone Yeah, that's what it is with video Speaking of Sony, did you see they've launched a new camera?

Nick Church (20:54)
Yeah.

Okay, yeah, that's a nice one. Actually, I'll use that video quite a lot.

I did that. Fix lens 35 mil. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (21:14)
Yep. Now

I'm going to quickly dive into my phone because I've got the model number. I haven't bought it yet. I'm not quite that bad. RX1R3 that's a zippy title isn't it? RX1R3. So 61 megapixels. So the same sensor as in all the other R cameras then basically. Fixed Carl Zeiss lens.

Nick Church (21:18)
If you haven't bought it yet.

Three yeah ⁓

Mm-hmm.

F2. Yeah, full frame sensor,

Steve Vaughan (21:38)
35 F2, yeah, sonar lens sounds nice.

Yep. So I guess designed to compete with the Leica Q3.

Nick Church (21:46)
Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (21:48)
The one thing that would put me off it with that particular sensor is there's no IBIS, from what I can see. ⁓ So shooting handheld with a high res sensor unless you're shooting at very high shutter speeds, I think you're going to have possibly a challenge there. But I can see why people might want to buy it. ⁓

Nick Church (21:53)
Okay.

It looks like a, it looks like a great camera. It's made

me think that using the X-T5 I've got the 56 and these are all, um, cropped, know, it's the 56, 85, uh, the 24 and the 50 mil. I pretty much, I might go out with the 50, I might go to the 24, but it just stays on there the whole time. I'm out. So I can really see the benefit more nowadays of having a, just a single lens camera and, and the, the pros of that for the size you've got. mean that.

Steve Vaughan (22:16)
Hmm, yeah, yeah.

Nick Church (22:34)
That are that are one X three, wherever it is. Rx, Rx one R three. That's a mad, that's a mad, that's a mad thing. That, that is nice and small, isn't it? I wonder how big is that compared to the X, the Fuji X P hundreds.

Steve Vaughan (22:48)
I mean, good question.

don't know. I literally say it's just been announced today as we record right now, but I've only seen the Sony promo video, not seen any of the usual reviewers review it yet. So it's interesting. So I think it's about $5,000 now. It's like $1.35, but obviously you've got the tariffs there as well. So I'm guessing it's going to be about three grand pounds. But for 2,300 you can buy an A7

Nick Church (22:52)
Yeah.

I've seen that,

Steve Vaughan (23:18)
R, A7C-R, sorry, as I get it right. So many modern numbers are horrendous. So I'm using an A7C-2 now, but you can get an A7C-R, which is exactly the same sensor in a compact body with IBIS and interchangeable lens. So you probably could put a 35mm 1.8 on that and get the same camera with IBIS. So I don't know.

Nick Church (23:37)
Yeah.

whether that

1.8 FE lens would be the same quality. don't know. Is that 61 meg? Yeah, same. Interesting.

Steve Vaughan (23:44)
Perfect. Yeah. Well.

61 meg, yep.

Typical Sony, they put that, you know, the same bits in the same camera, in different cameras over and over again, really. So it's a bold move because I mean, the Q3 has been really popular, hasn't it? So I guess it's a direct competitor for that, albeit without the QDOS of a Leica really.

Nick Church (24:01)
Hmm. Yeah.

I mean, it must be a great, if you're that product owner, that product designer or the product manager, it's only you've got such an inflated price on the Leica that you can come under that and still make a pretty good profit.

Steve Vaughan (24:08)
Hmm.

Well of course Sony supplying the sensor for the Leica anyway, it's just only wind both ways really, don't they? Yeah, yeah, yeah, so interesting. Well, if you're thinking of buying that camera, do let us know. I won't be buying it, I have to say.

Nick Church (24:18)
Yeah, yeah. That's right. Go either way. We're making, we're doing all right.

Talking about JPEGs

and ROARS, what's your take on whether to convert to DNG? Obviously Leica and there's such and such like do DNG natively. Well, just whether you think it's worth it or not. I always, mean, the reasons I do convert to DNG, but I think it's marginal. It's just cause I was writing that section of the...

Steve Vaughan (24:35)
why do you ask?

Nick Church (24:50)
one of the online courses. And it sort of occurred to me that it's so much, but the theory for the listener, the theory behind DNG as a format is that raw files are completely proprietary and it's based upon a licensing agreement to use that, that structure of the file. So if Adobe fell out with Rico or whoever else, then they may decide they're not allowed to use that raw file anymore. So you can avoid that by converting to DNG, which is an open standard.

Steve Vaughan (25:02)
Yeah.

Nick Church (25:18)
I think it's supposed to be a little bit faster. Makes sense that Adobe are going to create a format that they can optimize their software for. think they're a bit smaller. I like the fact that metadata is built into the file rather than these XMP sidecar XML files. yeah, it's a, but on the downside, of course, you've got that conversion, which does take about the, you know, it's sort of doubling your import time. If you're using something like Lightroom.

Steve Vaughan (25:42)
Hmm.

Nick Church (25:43)
It's, you know, rather than an hour for a wedding, it's two or three hours once it's created the DNGs and then the smart previous. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (25:48)
So do you convert on import then into like,

okay, okay. Interesting. ⁓

Nick Church (25:53)
I mean, it kind of works because

I'm tending to just do that and then leave, leave the student go to bed. So it doesn't matter if it takes four hours or one hour, you know, but, um, yeah, it is an extra step. If you are needing to turn things around and it's one of, if I didn't do it, it would probably mean that I would have time to start doing more culling during the wedding meal, for example, or, or turning things around a bit more quickly. But it's one of those things. Once you start it, it's a bit like the, the football player with a rabbit's leg in his foot.

Steve Vaughan (25:58)
Yeah, yeah.

Nick Church (26:22)
soft, do you know what mean? It becomes a rabbit's leg. What's the expression? A rabbit's foot. Is it a rabbit's foot? A lucky rabbit's foot. if they... It'd be quite good. It's quite high energy, I just think. But yeah, it's just because I've always done it. So I've never really questioned whether it's worth it, but I don't know. I just wondered if you had a view on it.

Steve Vaughan (26:25)
Sounds like a villa player. Instead of his normal leg you mean he's got a rabbit's leg.

Don't let him take the corner, he's got a rabbit's leg. ⁓

Interesting. the answer

is no. I used to when we were shooting Fuji again, so, Fuji film, sorry, because I think I mentioned before, my view at the time was that the Lightroom didn't play nicely with RAF files, Fuji RAW files. And there was an app out there called Irradiant X-Transformer, which would demosaic the Fuji RAW files and then output them as DNG files.

Nick Church (27:09)
Snappy.

Steve Vaughan (27:14)
So I used to use that as like a pre-treatment for all the Fujifilm files. Now I haven't done that with the X100 since I've been using that for fun or sound, I say? Sorry, Samantha. So the little Ricoh, I've got the GR3X produces DNG files. ⁓ But yeah, I guess that's the reason why people would say to do it is, know, if Canon and Nikon and Adobe all fell out one day, you you could open your files.

Nick Church (27:16)
Mm-hmm.

How does it?

Yeah. I mean, that, was always the reason

I was told, you know, they were the first heard about it, but with why a camera manufacturer would decide they don't want Adobe to read their files, who knows, but then you don't even know what's around the corner, suppose. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (27:47)
If

you convert to DNG, do let us know. We'd be interested to find out why you do it. yeah, interesting stuff. What else do want to talk about?

Nick Church (27:56)
Yeah.

I wondered about if you had any, could be something useful for someone starting out their photography journey. Is there something that you would do differently if you were to sort of, you know, if you could go back in time and tell your young Steve Vaughan that is just starting his photography journey, what would you do differently?

Steve Vaughan (28:13)
it has to be photography. Let's go into former wives and things now, in case they're listening. I mean, from my point of view, I'd start earlier because I didn't start taking photos professionally until I was in my fifties. Because I'd had a long life, long career in the corporate world. And I only really started doing it because I got ill.

Nick Church (28:15)
yeah. yeah, let's not start on that one. We haven't got that. We haven't got time.

Steve Vaughan (28:39)
corporate world really so I would have started younger. Although I haven't said that, my circumstances at the time meant I needed a pretty high salary to pay the bills and everything else, which probably would have precluded if I can say the word, going into photography. I think I would...

Nick Church (28:55)
Well, think it, I mean, I was in a similar position.

I think it just means you have to be a bit more strategic about it and very mind, you have, you're obviously more mindful of not exposing yourself and your family to risk, financial risk. Yeah, best avoided. Yeah, it's a shame that we're out to cancel that episode with Greg Wallace, aren't we? Probably.

Steve Vaughan (29:08)
I'm very mindful not to expose myself. Are you listening Greg Wallace by the way on the pod?

It was,

yeah, I've got them all lined up. We're going to do behind the scenes at MasterChef. I hate that programme by the way. Do you ever watch MasterChef? My wife watches them all. I always wanted to punch him in the face anyway when I saw him on telly. But anyway, that's another story. Sorry, you were talking about exposing ourselves. ⁓

Nick Church (29:23)
I have done, yeah, that's all right.

Well, I think you and 45 other people, think, by the sound of it.

Well, you've put me off. That was such a tangent. I can't remember what we're talking about. Oh yeah, yeah. I think you don't want to risk not being able to pay the mortgage. As we get older, our financial requirements increase. And if you're 25, it doesn't matter, does it? You can sort of muck around, just take a hit for a year and just see how it goes.

Steve Vaughan (29:36)
You want about... ⁓

Yeah, and that was it.

Mm.

Yep.

Nick Church (29:59)
So you just have to be bit more strategic in building the top together, which does create a very difficult period of time where you are managing it. Cause at the end point of that to let's say it's a year, the end point of that year is you're running two full-time jobs and that's that is, that is really difficult. So you do need like support and a plan around you to sort of help with that. But yeah, it's something that I would definitely do. I've always been a bit, glass half empty about it because you'd be amazing that I'm quite a glass half empty person.

Steve Vaughan (30:12)
That's right. Yeah.

Yeah, me too.

Nick Church (30:25)
So I always think, oh, if I'd started earlier, you know, but then we've brought to photography, you and I experiences that we've had in that previous career, which has meant probably that we could ramp up faster. And we've, we've got lots of other skills that somebody starting out wouldn't have. And, um, I think I would definitely, um, I've just noticed through, do you notice this through the summer, especially, I know we've been quite wedding heavy this episode.

Steve Vaughan (30:36)
super point.

That's a really good point. Yeah. Yeah, you know.

Nick Church (30:53)
You see a lot of the social media wedding photographers goes through the floor. There's hardly any posts from wedding photographers because we're just all so just strung out. and it's the last thing. So that will be something that I would put in place earlier. I think if I, if I could do that again, to get consistent social media output, just ticking away because that person that we've taken the Mickey out of already, no names with the photographer that we did, we shared has obviously got something in place where they do it themselves, but

Steve Vaughan (31:09)
Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah.

Nick Church (31:19)
but they're, being very visible on social media and that is getting them bookings. And, it's just, it's just such a difficult thing to sort of, it's always the first thing to drop, isn't it? We're not going to obviously, cut any corners on shooting or preparing for a wedding shoot or any other type of shoot. We're not going to, we're not going to try and rush the edit to get through despite that being a big backlog, you know, that, and that's always Freddie, any photographers in that position that are getting hounded by clients.

Steve Vaughan (31:22)
Yeah, absolutely. ⁓

No, of not,

Nick Church (31:45)
The best advice I can always give is if you let the client know that the quality is to write a proportionate amount of time you spend editing and that's something you are not prepared to compromise on because you know they want the best. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. But, and, know, and I think even if you go past that, that point where you said you were going to deliver, which, can happen. I, you know, I've, I've avoided that for a few years now, but it has happened in the past, but just letting them know that that's happened, being open to getting in front of it.

Steve Vaughan (31:53)
Yeah. But also manages expectations at the get go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

here.

Nick Church (32:15)
You know, know, you're not going to, you know, on the day that you're not going to deliver it. There's no point thinking, I'll just rip this out in a couple of days because it's other stuff happens. And it's then a week late and you might as well just come in and say, they're looking great. I'm putting a lot of effort into it. I'm really pleased with them. We're just going to be a few days late and there's no couple on the planet. There's no client on the planet that's going to say, well, that's really terrible. That's really terrible news.

Steve Vaughan (32:34)
I would think not, I

mean, would routinely, because we've got a bonkers August, I we've got eight weddings in August. I think we would normally say something like, give you an update, know, we're working on a number of weddings right now, you know, we're looking like we're on track for two or three weeks time or something like that, just so people, you can manage people's expectations.

Nick Church (32:49)
Yeah.

It's always difficult because we

sort of have this view of to try and create this myth that each couple is the only one that we're ever working with. it feels a bit awkward sometimes to say, I am working on loads of other couples' weddings. You know, that's just, and then when I'm shooting the future weddings, I'll be working on yours. it does go both ways, but I sometimes feel a bit of reluctance to share that information that we are really busy.

Steve Vaughan (32:59)
No, no, it's not true.

Yeah.

I think

that works though because of the two of us because from an editing point of view Sam and I do different things so Sam for instance is way better at calling than I am.

which we're probably going back away from by the way.

bit of a negative experience recently with some of the AI cullings. yeah, just the amount of time you're going back and looking for pictures, they want to just call it in the first place. Yeah. ⁓

Nick Church (33:24)
Really?

Exactly. Yeah. As long as you've got a

workflow where you can go through them once, ideally, you know, or at least if there's Supercharge Your Culling PDF that is out there from the Academy, which is superchargeyourculling.nickchurchcrepeacademy.com. So that's the process that I teach, which goes through at least twice, but it's twice in just one direction. And you can do a wedding in about an hour and a half, an hour easily. And you don't have to go through many...

Steve Vaughan (33:34)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Nick Church (33:59)
If you know you're missing some shots from an AI cult and you're going through a few times that you could use that time easily, just trying to find, dig them out.

Steve Vaughan (34:04)
Exactly. Yeah.

So I think we're going to go back to our original way of working, which is Sam would always do the culling because she's way better than I am. She's far more ruthless than I am. You know, think, I quite like that bitch. And she said, Nope, Nope, Nope, So Sam will be culling. We'll both do initial editing. I will do the final. to go back and do any, you know, local adjustments, that kind of thing. So we've got the two, you know, two of us doing different jobs. So it's very easy and it's true for us to say, you know, yeah.

Nick Church (34:09)
Mm.

Yeah. Yeah, that's that's very similar actually

to, and, and sorry, I think you were going to say the same thing. Cause that's similar to the system. have it, the Dawn does the call. I use AI for the bulk of the edit, but then do the AI adjustments and change every photo into it to a degree. think there's any photo that comes out of AI that I don't then change, but it does get me sort of half the way there. And it does. Um, but do do you find when calling, how'd you cope with?

Steve Vaughan (34:52)
Half the way there, exactly.

Nick Church (34:58)
Let's say, well, those Sam, Sam's at all the weddings that you do. that the case? Right. See, Dawn's not at all the weddings. So there are play, there are times when stuff's happened that I know is important. That probably was just a bit of a crap photo, but it does need to be in there that I have to go through and find. And the other interesting thing that I sometimes have to add in is if a couple have decided not to have, let's say evening shots, the nighttime, I've, I've managed to upsell that.

Steve Vaughan (35:03)
99.9 % yeah.

Mm. Yeah. Yep.

Nick Church (35:25)
And then there's only sort of 30 photos being selected. think I'm going to put some more in for that because they paid an extra 400 quid. So I'm to have to go through and dig some more.

Steve Vaughan (35:28)
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

And no AI program can know that. I do find also, and I read an interesting post from Andrew Billington, whose work I've always admired and gone on well with, he wrote something the other day about it not being great at picking up moments. And I agree with that. You know, it doesn't pick up those, you know, and their eyes might be closed for a moment or whatever, but it's still a moment. as the

Nick Church (35:39)
Hmm.

Absolutely.

Steve Vaughan (35:54)
documentary, mostly documentary photographers, that's what worries me a little bit about the AI cutting. It doesn't always seem to pick up those important moments really.

Nick Church (36:01)
or create

fingers properly when it's, when that's the other seems to be a weak spot. Yeah, sure. But you know, I,

Steve Vaughan (36:04)
That's AI editing, not hair cutting. Going back to you're saying about

social media a minute though, going back to 13, 14 years ago, I hated social media with a passion of something I avoided like the plague really. And it was going on a course with Kevin Mullins that made me understand the importance of it really, a photographer point of view. But I still don't particularly like social media. But do you think it's a...

It's a non-negotiable. It's if you want to be a photographer, working photographer these days, you have to do social media.

Nick Church (36:35)
Absolutely. Yeah, I think so. Or certainly, let's put it this way, I've spoken to photographers that have not been at the start of their journey, but at end of their journey. And once they stopped posting on social media, they were thinking the problem might be that they keep getting bookings and because referrals and everything else and they can't ever retire. Stop posting on social media and the bookings stopped after about a month pretty quickly. Or the inquiries rather.

Steve Vaughan (36:37)
Interesting.

⁓ We don't do a lot

these days, I'll be honest. We don't do a lot on Instagram and stuff, you know, but then again, we're not chasing the business anymore. yeah. What about LinkedIn? Do you do anything on LinkedIn?

Nick Church (37:07)
Hmm.

I don't know. So it's good point. I do have LinkedIn profile. It's on my list of stuff to do, to, to, to get more, collaborations on that and more clients on that platform. Cause I think for commercial photography, which I do a lot of, and the training stuff is much more likely to be popular in there.

Steve Vaughan (37:26)
What

are you doing on July 30th?

Nick Church (37:28)
Nothing. Don't think? Why?

Steve Vaughan (37:29)
Would you like

a free training course on LinkedIn? I'm reading this wasn't intended to be a, a, a, a sales pitch. I'm reading a training course for a local business community that I'm in here right here. And I'm doing a morning's training on how to use LinkedIn proactively. Cause from my training, the training business that I work in, which is now my, you know, the way I see my main work until I retire, I couldn't have a job without LinkedIn. And I've gone from being a skeptic to LinkedIn to being an absolute missionary almost for it really.

Nick Church (37:42)
yeah cool, absolutely.

Right.

Steve Vaughan (37:56)
And it's a fantastic tool if you use it properly. But most people don't know how to use it properly. I was only kidding, by the way, but I am running a course on this.

Nick Church (38:01)
Yeah. Oh, I'll tell you what, I'd

absolutely love to be involved in that. think the thing that puts me off is the, um, the, the Uber aspirational style of writing things like I'm delighted to present, you know, it is coming. It is just people blowing their own trumpet and it doesn't seem to be much authenticity. Whereas Facebook or Instagram at least is pretty authentic. I would say, I think obviously we're all painting a

Steve Vaughan (38:19)
That's Bull. Yep.

Yeah.

Nick Church (38:31)
vision, a version of ourselves that we want our clients to see. But we know that that works best when it's authentic and it's coming from that place. Whereas when people are representing a company, I find it doesn't really hit that. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (38:41)
Well, I think that's what people get wrong with LinkedIn because when I

do stuff on LinkedIn and I do most days, it's me talking. It's not me talking as a trainer or whatever, you know, it's me. And, you know, a fun fact here, out of something like a billion users on LinkedIn globally, only 3 % regularly post content, 3%. So you can very easily stand out very quickly if you regularly post content on LinkedIn, because LinkedIn is desperate to, like any social media, wants people to stay on the platform.

Nick Church (38:51)
Yeah.

Really? Wow.

Yeah. Huh.

Steve Vaughan (39:12)
So the more that somebody posts interesting content, the more likely they are to offer your content to somebody else. And I've got bookings for training courses that I run from pictures of people that I play golf with. And somebody knows them and say, Oh, I'm looking for a sales trader. So, you know, this isn't the place to go into in detail, but if you are running a small business, listening to this, and you're not active on 18, you are missing a major, major opportunity.

Nick Church (39:24)
interesting.

yeah,

well, I'd be well up for that training course then please.

Steve Vaughan (39:40)
It's on the 30th of July, it's in Imagex, the photography shop in Bista. So it's just for three hours. So if you can make it up, I'll give you free place with pleasure. But I didn't mean to go into that, but it was just something that popped into my mind while were talking about social media. Have you bought anything in recent times?

Nick Church (39:45)
Okay.

Excellent.

Yeah, no, that's handy, handy.

Nothing I suspect that would, the appetites of our listenership, but it's a video prompter for my training stuff, which yeah, exactly. I can't believe I tell you what, I can't believe I didn't buy one of these about, about three or four years ago. It's, it's going to, I just don't know why I've had this mental block about it. It's such an obvious thing to have, you know, you know, you don't need, you don't need something until someone

Steve Vaughan (40:08)
The same thing I'm talking to you on right now.

Nick Church (40:24)
puts it in front of you and think that's going to solve my problem completely. Because I find when I'm doing videos, I can eat on a half an hour training course video. I could easily be doing 30, 35, 40 takes, you know, just to get it, just to get it right. don't like cutting because the other option is you're cutting every couple of sentences. Yeah. And it's fine, but I want to do something a better than that. yeah, that's gonna be, so that's gonna be great. So that's one of my jobs this week is to set that up.

Steve Vaughan (40:37)
I'm surprised. Yeah. Yeah.

Your junk cuts all the time. Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Church (40:53)
which you've done.

Steve Vaughan (40:53)
And I've looked at some of your

videos on the Academy and they're great by the way. They're very professional and very polished. just to the benefit of the listener, what we're talking about. So it's an Elgato video prompter.

Nick Church (40:57)
thank you.

Steve Vaughan (41:04)
Prime Week's finished now, but it was on sale on Prime Week. They're about £300 less price. Yeah, bargain.

Nick Church (41:08)
Yeah, was 189 quid. I

jumped. It was so cheap that that's why I messaged you when I was in Ireland just to check it was the right one because I wondered if it was like, you know, something different.

Steve Vaughan (41:15)
That's the one, yeah. So if you're

making videos or even if you're doing Zoom calls, because I'm talking to Nick now using the app that we call called Riverside and I'm actually using the teleprompter right now so I can look straight down the camera. So unlike a lot of teleprompters you can buy for about £80, £90 that basically rely on your mobile phone that sits on a bracket and then he projects up onto the sort of two-way mirror or one-way mirror. know what I mean? This actually has a built-in screen.

Nick Church (41:40)
Isn't it

weird that we call it a two-way mirror, which would be a window? But that's the expression, isn't it? Two-way mirror.

Steve Vaughan (41:44)
I know.

Good point.

So this device has a screen which you can either use as a teleprompter so you can write your text in and it'll scroll and you just like when you're on BBC reading the news, which I've never done of course, or you can use it as an extra screen. So right now I'm using it as an extra screen for the Mac ruining the app that we use for recording called Riverside. And it's, it's super. So I'll put a link to it in the show notes, but if anybody does use video conferencing regularly or needs to record videos,

And you don't have to use a proper camera. can use a phone or even some like an Osmo Pocket in theory behind it as well. It's a really cool bit of kit really. ⁓ It's, yeah. It is, yeah.

Nick Church (42:24)
Cause that eye contact is important for, you know,

it's probably a zoom call more so potentially than recording recorded stuff, but you want to be connected with people. And, it's one of those things where I've got you just to the left of the camera. So I'm probably slightly off and it's probably something that you're almost better off being completely off where you're clearly not even trying to talk to the camera or straight at it, but being slightly off is a bit odd. So, so that way, yeah, but so you can either, so you're using it, just be able to talk to somebody and look at them.

Steve Vaughan (42:45)
Yeah, yeah.

Nick Church (42:52)
I'll be using it for having the words and the script that I'm going through. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (42:56)
Perfect. Yeah.

And I'm going to use it for when I do remote training as well, cause I can run zoom or teams on it and even share slides on it. And even with my eyesight not being quite as strong as it was, I can still read the slides. So, but then it looks like I'm looking at them rather than sort of looking at the side of my head. Yeah. So really cool bit of kit. Yeah. Recommended highly guys, if you listen to us and we're not sponsored in any way by Elgato, unfortunately. Not yet.

Nick Church (43:10)
Yeah.

Not yet. Leave it with me. I've got another couple

of brand collaborations that I'll let you know about when we, if they develop. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (43:24)
watch that space dear listener.

Did see that we got featured on an article as well? I think you were weblink. Did you see that?

Nick Church (43:29)
I did. Yeah, that's

exciting. Yeah. What was it? What was the article called? The five youngest, most ⁓ engaging podcasters on the planet.

Steve Vaughan (43:36)
handsome, good looking.

And then there was us two at the end as well. It's called the creativeblog.com. And if we didn't write it now, it's got eight creative podcasts you need to listen to the creativeblog.com. In the interest of transparency, the author did reach out to me and said, would you mind if we featured you on this article? And you're always a little bit sort of, what's the catch?

Nick Church (43:42)
We wrote it.

Steve Vaughan (44:02)
and I should have spoke to you before and actually, but I did send them a copy of the thumbnail and yeah, so I'll put a link to that in the show. Yeah.

Nick Church (44:06)
Yeah, that's great. Yeah. No, that

yeah, it's a nice little right out there and a nice, you know, it kind of, it did seem like they weren't just spewing back what we'd sent them. They, they, they listened to it and it was, you know, it was bouncing back what we were, what we are trying to achieve with this podcast, which was good. I'm also going to be on the, beginner photography podcast with Raymond Hatfield, which is a really, really good, I was on there years ago when I started my photography journey. And so, yeah, we've been chatting and I'm going to get back on there.

Steve Vaughan (44:16)
No.

Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah.

Are you?

Nick Church (44:33)
the near future. So I'll give the pot a shout then as well. See if we can get some of his listeners over.

Steve Vaughan (44:35)
Great stuff. Yeah, good man, yeah.

Any thoughts we want to talk to before we wrap up? I'm going to guess this week, we're just having a catch up, but anything else you want to catch up?

Nick Church (44:44)
Yeah, that's it all for me,

Steve. Thank you. That's been, I'm just looking through my list. If I had my list here, it would look much more seamless, but no, that's yeah, that was everything I had to go through. No, that's been a really good catch up.

Steve Vaughan (44:50)
Hahaha

Yeah, as always. Yeah. So, dear listen, if you'd anything you'd like us to talk about, on a future show, you know, we come out every couple of weeks. So anything you'd like us to talk about or a guest you'd like us to feature, we're probably going to struggle to get guests for, for a little while now during wedding season, at least wedding wedding photographers anyway, cause we're all super busy, but we'll keep the podcast going over the, over the course of the summer, but anything you'd like us to talk about, we do have an email address. Remind me of the email address, Nick.

Nick Church (45:19)
studio at the photography pod.co.uk.

Steve Vaughan (45:22)
So we'd love to hear any thoughts, questions, comments, hopefully positive feedback. We would love to hear that from you as well. And don't forget also, go on, yeah, yeah.

Nick Church (45:29)
And with regards to guests, just sorry, Steve, if

somebody, we've got a really good track record of getting guests on the show. so, so if somebody is, so someone's listening that thinks I'd love to hear so and so come on the pod, then don't think that just because if they're really well known that they may not do it, it's really worth letting us know. And I can reach out to them and we've had good record, it gets really well known people on and.

Steve Vaughan (45:37)
or you are particularly here.

Hmm. It is.

Yeah, you have, you've done a great job on that, really. ⁓

Nick Church (45:56)
And they've all been very interesting as well. whether

they're publicly well known or just someone's really engaged, I think they've been an inspirational punch. So we will get. ⁓

Steve Vaughan (46:03)
Yeah, super point. Yeah, super point.

Or even if you're interested in coming on yourself, you know, if you've got a story to tell about your photography and or perhaps work in a particular unusual area, then we'd love to hear from you as well. Yeah. And of course, don't forget to give us a review on Spotify or Apple iTunes podcasts. It does help us in lots of weird and wonderful ways. We'll be back in in a couple of weeks time. Until then, happy shooting out there and we'll talk to you soon.

Nick Church (46:15)
Yeah, good shot, good shot, yeah.

See you later.


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