Jay Farrell - Abandoned buildings photographer and author from Nashville, TN.

Nick and Steve's guest for this week's show is Jay Farrell, a Nashville, TN based photographer who specialises in photographing abandoned building throughout USA. He is also a successful author, with 15 published books of abandoned buildings and his travels. He recently self published is own book, Route 66 Roadscapes. He tells Steve and Nick:

• How he got started photographing abandoned buildings
• How he finds his locations
• How he keeps safe when exploring
• His approach to writing and publishing books
• His minimalist approach to camera gear. 

Nick has been working hard on the Nick Church Creative Academy, and also dropping cameras again, whilst Steve has just come back from a vacation in Croatia, including a trip to Mostar in Bosnia and Hercegovina.

Jay Farrell Author https://www.jayfarrellauthor.com/

Jay Farrell Instagram https://www.instagram.com/jayfarrellauthor/

Nick Church and Steve Vaughan are professional wedding photographers based in the UK. They both use Sony Alpha cameras and lenses.

Video version of the Podcast including slide shows of images https://www.youtube.com/@thephotographypod

Nick's website : https://www.nickchurchphotography.co.uk/
Nick's Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/nickchurchphotography/

Nick Church Creative Academy https://www.nickchurchphotography.co.uk/news/introducing-nick-church-creative-academy

Steve's website : https://www.samandstevephotography.com/
Steve's Wedding Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/samandstevephotography/
Steve's personal Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/stevevaughanphotography

Any technical information given by the presenters is based on their understanding and opinion at the time of recording

Transcript

Steve Vaughan (00:01)
Hello again and welcome to the photography part of a photography podcast for both working professionals and enthusiast photographers alike. My name is Steve Vaughan and I'm here again with my good mate Nick Church, who once again has been breaking cameras. Nick, why don't you tell the listener about what you've been up to?

Nick Church (00:16)
Well, this, you know, I liked, I don't like to just hang on to one brand. I like to spread my efforts across multiple. So the last brand was Sony and Sony Pencoid in Wales were great at fixing the lens that broke when I dropped it. This time it was my Fuji, my X-25. So I had a, we were in London. It was my son, Charlie and Dawn's son Seb, my stepson, they're both 21 this year. So we thought we'd take them to London. went for afternoon tea in the Shard.

Steve Vaughan (00:21)
Nah, sure.

no.

Nick Church (00:45)
Which is pretty expensive. 380 quid for four afternoon teas. And they don't even drink these, these two boys. So anyway, it was nice, but the service was poor and 15 % of that was 50 quid. So I had to give a 50 % tip for a really crappy service. Anyway, we were knocking about by a market and soho and stuff. And so I had my camera cause I'm trying to take through this pod. I've got a more energized about taking personal photos for myself rather than just work. I'll show you, I'll put a few on here. ⁓

Steve Vaughan (00:48)
Wow, that's insane.

I think he was.

Good grief.

cool,

OK,

these are the Fuji.

Nick Church (01:14)
Yeah, yes, that's from a Fuji. So that this is in Soho. That's in Soho as well. That was knocking about near Mayfair just on the way to the tube. That's Dawn, Seb and Charlie. And that's just another one. Yeah, knocking back. So it was great. To be, you look anywhere. It's just really, really lovely. But in, I've got after the last instant of my camera, I've got a

Steve Vaughan (01:16)
nice.

I love photographing in London. There's always somebody to photograph in there. Yeah. Yeah. It's brilliant. Yeah.

Nick Church (01:43)
very ⁓ good paracord strap and a nice neoprene case. I was fumbling putting those putting it all back into my bag. The strap got caught on the neoprene thing and I dropped the camera and it stove the lens cap into the lens. I 50 mil or 50 mil equipment lens. I managed to get that out. The rest of it looks like it's okay. And I I think the lens still works. I think I had that time to check properly. ⁓

Steve Vaughan (01:56)
no.

I should say

that there's a really good, I mean, you mentioned the Sony Pencoid team are very good. The Fujifilm service team for Europe, believe, certainly for the UK is in Bedford and they are fantastic. I don't think they do a fixed price anymore. I've said before we started, they do a fixed price. I don't think they do, but they will look at it very quickly for you and turn it around really quickly. know, okay.

Nick Church (02:24)
Well, it needs, I'm touch word, it won't need it. ⁓

But yeah, that's good to know. Good to know.

Steve Vaughan (02:30)
Yeah,

we'd recommend them highly as I know would our guest who's coming up shortly. So, dear Lester, what are we going to talk about today? So I'm going to very quickly talk about my wonderful holiday because I'm sitting here rather sunburnt. We got back quite late last night from Croatia. Nick, I know, has been really busy with his creative academy. And I know, Nick, you want to update us on that as well. And we also have a special guest who's Jay Farrell. He'll be coming up in a moment. Jay is somebody I've known for many years initially through Fujifilm, actually.

and Jay's a very accomplished author and photographer of abandoned buildings. So yeah, let me go first. I'll just go back from holiday. So I'll down to post-holiday blues. We went to Croatia. Never been before. You been to Croatia, Nick?

Nick Church (03:10)
We're going this year in October. Yeah. I, meant, I still had it on my to-do list to come back to you about where it was because Dawn booked it all. It's near split. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's near basically the same place you went. And if it is, that'd be great. Cause I've been looking at your social media and it looked beautiful.

Steve Vaughan (03:12)
⁓ whereabouts?

Hahaha.

I've only been putting snaps up there, but as always, I've took a ton of video with my Osmo Pocket that I always get set out with the intention of putting on YouTube and I probably never will. it's an amazing coastline, lovely scene. We were staying in a place called Omish, which is about 20 miles south of Split. So we did go to Split for the day on the bus and had a tour around the Rome and stuff. And that was fascinating. on the last day, I went to somewhere I'd always wanted to go to, which wasn't in Croatia, it was in Bosnia Herzegovina. And because...

Nick Church (03:52)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Vaughan (03:53)
That's now a international frontier and Bosnia is not in the EU in Croatia. You have to go through passport control and it takes about an hour to get through. But I went to a place called Mostar. Do you remember the Bosnian Wars in the 90s on telly? And there was a famous bridge that was blown up, it actually blown up by the Croatians actually. And that's in Mostar. So, and they rebuilt it since. So it's a place I'd always wanted to go to because I can remember seeing it on TV. And it's a really cool place because you've got a mix of

Nick Church (04:01)
I were.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

okay.

Steve Vaughan (04:23)
Muslim culture, Christian culture, Serbian Orthodox culture. But something which I know would have interested our guests coming up shortly, there's lots of abandoned buildings still from when the war was on 30 years ago. So there's a building called Sniper Tower, which they've just left. Big car park, I think it looks like, full of bullet holes, full of graffiti. You know, amazing to imagine what it must have been like at that time. yeah, fun place to go to and very cheap, actually. It was probably half the price, of course.

Nick Church (04:35)
Okay.

Yeah. Very photogenic. sounds

like it sounds like some.

Steve Vaughan (04:52)
The bridges, yeah, and the minarets, know, the mosques and things as well. did climb up the, I climbed up, I a ticket somewhere, I climbed up there, the National Mosque there, up the minaret, scraping my knees and scraping my camera on the way up there. And I'm not very good on heights, but I've got a fantastic view of the bridge up there. I don't think I, I stayed there for about three seconds. came down again because I'm not very good at heights. Things you do for a photo. Sam was looking at me, she said, if I got mad, and she's probably right, really. So.

Nick Church (04:56)
Mm-hmm.

cool.

You

Yeah,

I think she probably is. ⁓ great. Yeah, yeah.

Steve Vaughan (05:18)
But no, recommend it, mate, and I'm sure we'll catch up on before you go.

And you've had a busy time, I know, as well as dropping cameras, and more seriously, you've had a busy time with work as well.

Nick Church (05:26)
Oh, yeah, it's been,

it's been epic. The, Nick Church Creative Academy is now live so that it's been like two months of a hundred plus hour weeks nonstop. So I'm absolutely shattered, but I am really proud of it. And it's, you know, it's, it's something I'm really behind. more and more kind of in belief that this is a really good way for all photographers to learn. And it came from, I think we said before about all of the, like I've

Steve Vaughan (05:43)
Say should be. ⁓

Nick Church (05:55)
work with over 200 clients now sort of teaching photography beginner or professional. And there's a common theme and a lot of people that come to me is that they're looking at YouTube and Facebook and it's just not working. And it's because with YouTube, you need to know what you're looking for to be able to search the right thing and find it. And so you never find the thing you work for. It's unstructured. The quality or the correctness, the quality is normally good because you tend to get the videos that look like they're well shot and well lit.

Steve Vaughan (06:09)
Yeah.

Nick Church (06:22)
But it doesn't mean that the actual content is correct or otherwise. So, and if you've got any questions, there's no direct interaction. You might get a response a year later, you know, so, so you head to Facebook groups and then that's, that's full of gatekeepers often. it's very, yeah. And just the loudest voices, the ones you always hear. again, it's, you know, it's hard to know who's advice to take. so the, the,

Steve Vaughan (06:24)
custom.

And people justifying positions are justifying their own existence in many cases, isn't it? Yeah, Yeah, yeah.

Nick Church (06:47)
The online courses are live on there now and the coaching and, and so on. the, membership hub is something I'm really, really passionate about this. This is this kind of the best bits of YouTube and Facebook groups, but without the adverts and negativity and doom scrolling and everything else. So that's taken a long time to get up and running, but I think it's going to be, you know, it's where the master classes are. there's masterclass content on there and people can interact and all of our partner, partner discounts and stuff are on there. So yeah.

Steve Vaughan (07:06)
Fantastic mate. Good for you.

Yeah.

Nick Church (07:13)
Do jump on board membership. There are paid memberships as free, include mentoring, but membership otherwise is free. So just go to www.nicture.creativeacademy.com and sign up on any page and you'll get the free membership and a few emails that show you your way around. There's a video where I talk about how to find your way around the academy.

Steve Vaughan (07:29)
reminds me

I need to sign up actually I haven't got right to do it so I'll definitely be doing that. But I mean as you know I work in training as well I have a sales training business and you're dead right you know you can go searching for things online but until you don't know you don't know what you don't know sort of thing really so what you bring really is a community. It's funny you mentioned Facebook groups because that's where I met our guest who's listening patiently in the background right now so

Nick Church (07:32)
Exactly. Well, I'll just sign up for you. I don't care. I'll just a contact.

Exactly.

Steve Vaughan (07:59)
About six, seven years ago, myself and Jay Farrell, who's coming up as our guest, used to hang out in a wedding photography group for people shooting Fujifilm cameras that was run actually by my good mate, Kevin Mullins. I think the group isn't there anymore, it was a very, you know, unlike many Facebook groups, it was a great community and we all got to know each other. And then Kevin organized a meetup in Bath in the UK and Jay, who lives in Nashville, Tennessee,

came over and stayed with us. So, and then about three years later, Joe was very kind enough to put me up when I was on a tour in the States. So ever since then, Joe and I have been good mates. We've kept in contact over the last few years. So Jay, welcome to the podcast. How are you mate?

Jay Farrell (08:39)
Doing great, thanks so much.

Steve Vaughan (08:41)
Great to have you here. yeah, for the benefit of the listeners, so though you do a lot of professional photography, we're going to focus, if you're barring the point, more on what you do in terms of your work that's led you becoming an author. And that's photographing abandoned buildings and abandoned premises throughout the United States. But as I say, you live in Nashville right now. So just tell us a little bit about yourself first of all, and what got you into photography first of all,

Jay Farrell (09:06)
well, initially I photographed back in the film days when, you had to use, a hammer and chisel on a piece of stone. I photographed, car junkyards actually. And, and now I'm kind of back to doing that again. I just, ⁓

Steve Vaughan (09:16)
You

Nick Church (09:16)
Yeah

Steve Vaughan (09:19)
Okay.

Why Kai

Junkyards? What was it about those that made you want to photograph them?

Jay Farrell (09:27)
I think I just didn't find the things that everybody else wanted to photograph. I just found it boring. And I wanted to, you know, kind of find a unique beauty in the distress. And I'm actually still doing that, but I made a commitment to myself, no matter what I do with photography professionally, doing it creatively is always going to be the most important because otherwise I'll feel like an out of shape athlete. And that's not good.

Steve Vaughan (09:33)
Right.

Right.

Yeah.

Jay Farrell (09:51)
And also, you my choice of camera systems makes it so that I'm in control of it and it gets out of my way and lets me do what I want to do. I'm not fumbling through menus and yeah, I'm not a huge technology guy. So I'd rather just keep the process fun and explore and make it about the journey.

Steve Vaughan (09:59)
Absolutely. I'm going to talk about gear and stuff in a little while because I know

Absolutely. Yeah,

completely. And as Nick was saying earlier, you know, one of the things about shooting professionally is that you forgot to forget to take photos for fun. And, you know, it's great that we find a way of doing that. so what, why, why abandoned buildings? What is it about abandoned buildings now? Because that's your particular niche. And that's what you've led to becoming an author. What, is it about those that drew your creative inspiration or your creative eye towards them?

Jay Farrell (10:33)
It initially started off as a place that I brought models, like maybe 20 years ago to do photo shoots for them when I was more into people photography. And that was definitely enjoyable. But over the years, I'm going to say it's probably been maybe seven or eight years ago, at least that. And a model was late or didn't show up or something and we were supposed to meet on set. And I just started photographing the building.

Steve Vaughan (10:39)
Okay.

Jay Farrell (10:58)
And a good friend of mine had a similar thing happen. And we both just kind of started exploring together just the buildings. And I noticed that around Nashville, they were kind of disappearing because the price of property, commercial property especially, was just skyrocketing. And now it's just insane. I don't see how anybody affords it. But yeah, so we found ourselves over the past decade having to go farther to find the places we like.

But thankfully, I started soon enough to where I could still enjoy what was left in Nashville and take advantage of it. And even the ones where I've had human subjects, I can go back and kick myself for not paying enough attention to the location. And that's a mistake I'll never make again. But I've just kind of had to expand my reach about what's available and even more revisiting other spots to put a different spin on it.

Steve Vaughan (11:39)
Right? Sure, sure.

Jay Farrell (11:49)
and it's just fun the stories these places tell.

Steve Vaughan (11:52)
Absolutely. So, you know, I've never done this. I mean, I mentioned on vacation, I know there's some buildings, but I've never done this in the way that you do. So just talk us through the process you go through then. Is it literally you're driving along and you see a building and you think, oh, I fancy a photograph in that building, or is there a lot more planning and research that has to go into it beforehand?

Jay Farrell (12:14)
I don't have the attention span for research. Yeah, if there's one language I understand, it's get in the car and go. ⁓ You know, sometimes I'll have leads, something like that, or just an area to check out, but there's nothing like being there because somebody can tell you all day long something's there until you're there. You don't know what's happening. We've had some surprises. Maybe the building got raised or something like that.

Steve Vaughan (12:16)
Hahaha

Nick Church (12:18)
you

Steve Vaughan (12:23)
Right.

Jay Farrell (12:39)
But yeah, that's normally the process.

Steve Vaughan (12:42)
Okay. And just to be clear, from a safety point of view, are you seeking permission to enter these buildings or are doing this kind of on the quiet?

Jay Farrell (12:52)
Usually, I just do it because most of the time, who would I ask? ⁓ But of course, and I understand it, the other people that own the properties, they don't want to get sued if somebody gets hurt. But that's just kind of a commitment that I made to myself that if something like that happens, it's on me. I'm not going after them. But that wouldn't be the case with everybody. But you just got to kind of always know what's under your feet and below and how far the fall would be.

Steve Vaughan (12:57)
Right, yeah.

Right, right.

Right.

Jay Farrell (13:20)
just kind of, it's all calculated risk.

Nick Church (13:22)
Yeah, risk management, guess, isn't it? Those sorts of things.

Jay Farrell (13:25)
Yeah,

Steve Vaughan (13:25)
Mm.

Jay Farrell (13:26)
but

it's rare that I get approached and if so, I generally know how to get the conversation going so that they just, at that point, they just want me to go away because I've annoyed them by, I bug them for history or whatever and that's not how they expected the conversation to go, but just never be combative.

Nick Church (13:43)
Yeah. Well, they, they, I mean, it's, it's a form of flattery, it? Which is a really useful tool for all photographers where if you're showing, you're interested in the building, the history, and you think it looks really incredible. If it is someone that owns it, they're going to feel that, right. You know, it's not just somebody nosing around, having a poke about, they're actually quite, you know, they're quite into this. The same with if you're doing street photography or taking a shot of somebody and they clock you taking the picture, you can often kind of really kind of neutralize that situation. So I think it just looks really beautiful. You sitting there in that light.

Steve Vaughan (13:47)
Mm.

Nick Church (14:13)
you know, and nice smile, no kind of argument or conflict and just, you know, be prepared to walk away.

Jay Farrell (14:20)
Yeah, if you have hostile encounters, you're doing it wrong.

Nick Church (14:24)
chill.

Steve Vaughan (14:25)
Yeah. So what are you looking for then when you see a building? it the light? it obviously the light because we're photographers, but you know, it the amount of decay in the building? know, what kind of thing draws your eye and you think, that would be a great subject for a photo or a series of photos.

Jay Farrell (14:42)
I typically look for the distress and texture ⁓ and often color. At one time, I still love black and white photos always well, especially of human subjects, but for buildings, think 99 % of the time or any place I explore, there's something where the color adds to it. And with black and white, I think it kind of destroys that separation sometimes.

Steve Vaughan (14:45)
Right.

Jay Farrell (15:06)
Yeah, sometimes if it's a standalone subject and a less busy background, yeah, it can work okay, you know, but that's one thing that's changed over the last decade is that more of my work is color because there, you know, unless it's just something where the color doesn't add anything to it that's rare.

Steve Vaughan (15:07)
Right.

Got you, got you.

Jay Farrell (15:24)
But it's

a whole combination and most of the I explore in cloudy conditions. Unless it's a certain time of day, it just looks a little bit more depressing, especially in the wintertime when the trees are dormant. It just kind of adds to it.

Steve Vaughan (15:30)
Okay, why is that?

Yeah, there's plenty of opportunities for that in the UK most of the time, although it's glorious sunshine here today, I have to say. Yeah, but still, yeah. So you've ventured quite far afield. And then last time I spoke to you, you know, you've moved a long way from Tennessee. You've gone much, much further afield. So just tell the listener where you've photographed now in terms of geography.

Jay Farrell (15:58)
Well, back in 2022, I did my first trip on Route 66. And I guess the reason for it, of course, I wanted to experience the historic route, but everybody can have their own perception. And I think that most people who explore it for the first time, they over plan, they overthink. And that's where I'm kind of glad that my attention span doesn't support that because none of it means anything until you're actually there.

Steve Vaughan (16:02)
All right.

Jay Farrell (16:19)
you can think about it, can talk about it, you can plan it, and none of that means anything until you're there, because everything could change once you are there. ⁓

Steve Vaughan (16:28)
Hopefully you can see

that guys, this is off your website. Can you all see that right now? So these are some of the books. So we're to come onto your authoring or your book publishing in a second, but here's some examples of your work, but also some of the places you've been to. So for those of you that aren't familiar with United States geography, so Warbony's upstate New York from, is that right?

Nick Church (16:31)
Mm-hmm.

Jay Farrell (16:32)
yeah.

Yeah, that's actually where I'm originally from. And ⁓ I'd go up there to visit my mom who sadly passed away ⁓ eight months ago. Thank you. Thank you. ⁓ But, you know, but she was able to attend a book signing that I actually did up there at the book house in Albany. So that was quite special. A lot of people came and all their copies were sold out.

Steve Vaughan (17:01)
Sorry to hear that mate.

Nick Church (17:13)
Hmm.

Steve Vaughan (17:15)
So

Nick Church (17:17)
well done.

Steve Vaughan (17:18)
we've got the sort of the South, Alabama, Tennessee, Kentucky, Indiana, moving bit further north really. there's a whole range of geography really. In terms of you doing this type of photography really, have you ever felt uncomfortable? Have you ever had a situation where perhaps you thought this isn't safe or...

I'm in danger here and I don't want to make a sweeping generalisation from somebody sitting in the UK, but Americans have a lot more guns than we do typically. So, you know, was there any time when you've been?

Jay Farrell (17:49)
Yeah, that's, I think

that's kind of unfortunate. ⁓

Steve Vaughan (17:53)
Well, I won't go into the politics of it, but the reality is you did

turn out more than we do.

Nick Church (17:56)
Unfortunate

Jay, because you think we should have more guns or?

Jay Farrell (17:59)
No, no, think it's unfortunate that people are too gun happy here. I think it's little cowardly, really. ⁓ To be honest, I think if that happens to people, then they approach the situation wrong. I've never had anything like with guns affecting my exploring, but sometimes it's a matter of knowing where not to go. ⁓

Steve Vaughan (17:59)
I don't think so.

Nick Church (18:00)
I'm joking. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (18:05)
So, but in all seriousness, have you ever felt threatened or scared? Sure.

Right.

Right. So is that just

experience and

Jay Farrell (18:28)
I think so. Yeah, I've never felt threatened in that manner. Yeah, sure. People have approached, but most time they see what you're doing and it's okay. But I've explored a lot of different places and I know Eastern Kentucky has the reputation for you don't fool around around there. But I mean, if you go there with a willing attitude to learn about the area and you show genuine interest, generally you'll be treated well and you'll be in the hands of the locals. Everything will be okay.

Steve Vaughan (18:54)
sure. Common sense, guess.

Jay Farrell (18:55)
but you don't don't go back

into the hollers without knowing somebody and just poke around so

Steve Vaughan (18:59)
Hmm. No, sure.

Nick Church (19:01)
I think that's,

I think that's similar here. Do you know? think you wouldn't choose to go like if you're doing it, say if you're doing street photography, Steve, there are some areas in London, in Bristol, wherever you're from that you would, it would be foolish to do it. You know, you'd almost be asking for trouble to do it. And you just have to be sensible. Jay, do you find that your approach to choosing these locations, which is more of a sort of, sort of just suck it and see, just go and see what strikes you and what inspires you to take photos as you're out and about, which is interesting because

Steve Vaughan (19:08)
Mm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Church (19:30)
Other photographers have got a really meticulously planned thing. And it's always fascinates me the difference, the different approaches, but one advantage of your, your way of doing it must be that you're not just taking the same pictures of when I was, cause if I was going to research abandoned buildings, I would hit Google and I stumbled across the same places that everybody has taken before. Whereas you're more likely to find, um, unusual places that just haven't been photographed previously.

Steve Vaughan (19:33)
Hmm.

Jay Farrell (19:55)
I think it's rare to find something that hasn't been photographed at all and I have found places on Google and I've explored with friends that have actually I've done solo trips too but and some of them have a very different approach where they have pins and all that that's not me but but but it but it definitely helped the trip I think that they did it I think it was kind of cool it made it easier to find and it was a different experience just to kind of know where you're going

Steve Vaughan (20:14)
Right.

Nick Church (20:21)
Mm.

Jay Farrell (20:22)
Yeah, that's typically not much.

Steve Vaughan (20:22)
What I'd like to explore with you now is

how did you move from being a photographer to being a well-published author? I think, I know you won't mind me saying, but I've known you for a number of years. To start with, this is something which was a long way out of your comfort zone, writing for a book. was something you perhaps 10, 12 years ago you wouldn't dream of doing really. just tell the list of how you moved into becoming a published author with, as we've just seen on the website, a number of books now in print. How did you get there?

Jay Farrell (20:52)
Well, the only real writing experience I had was blogging. And thankfully I did start that back in like 2010, maybe, maybe a little sooner. Yeah, about that. I think I did have some natural writing talent that I just needed to clean up a little bit and work on my approach. But I certainly never would have thought of myself as qualified to write a book. And when I got approached by Font Hill Media out of the UK actually, ⁓

Steve Vaughan (20:58)
Yeah.

All right.

Jay Farrell (21:18)
Yeah, actually the other guy that worked for them lives in Sutton, South London, which I don't think is the only Sutton in the UK. think there's several. Yeah, that's almost like Springfield and in the U S or like there's 90 million, like, can't you think of anything else?

Steve Vaughan (21:23)
I remember you telling me that. Yes. Yeah. There are several. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Church (21:27)
Mmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

I know.

Steve Vaughan (21:36)
There's 13

Birminghams in the United States, that's another story.

Jay Farrell (21:39)
Yeah, but I mean, they approached me based on the work they saw on social media. And I just thought, are you out of your mind? Do want me to write a book? But at first I was kind of scared and kind of skeptical. I researched the company and I talked to the copy editor that I would be working with. And eventually I just kind of let down my guard, got more information and put forth my first project, Abandoned Tennessee.

Steve Vaughan (21:43)
man.

Jay Farrell (22:02)
And then I started to really enjoy the process. there's, I'm going to say that like, if I could go back now, there's a few that I would take out of circulation because naturally as I've progressed, I've gained wisdom about, it's not about just what you put in the book. It's what you don't put in. And also I've gotten more polished with use of my captions and just wording. It's just a lot cleaner now, but I think that.

Steve Vaughan (22:17)
Right.

What comes first, the

pictures or the words? Or both?

Jay Farrell (22:29)
Yeah, think that's expected.

Well, it's primarily a photography book. But usually there's like an introduction for each chapter telling you something about the places I explore and then use the captions to kind of continue that and keep them engaged. Early in the game, I felt that the captions were kind of choppy and then I learned how to make better use of them. And that just happens with time. It's expected, just like not every...

Steve Vaughan (22:32)
Okay, well that's this stupid question.

Okay.

Right.

Jay Farrell (22:53)
great rock and roll band is equally proud of every album. Like I'm sure the first time the Rolling Stones recorded, it wasn't the same as later. Or it might've been better, who knows?

Steve Vaughan (23:04)
another podcast for another day as well. So talk to the process then. So you got approached by the publishing company. How many iterations does it go through? I've never written a book. I've always said I'd like to one day, but how many iterations do you go through from, you know, here's the first draft, second draft, you know, what is the process that you go from having the initial idea to having something on the shelf in Amazon or wherever?

Jay Farrell (23:06)
Yeah.

of course that's changed for me over the years, but I I start with word documents for each chapter and then, start a separate one for captions. And I just kind of go through and think, okay, could I word this better? Could I do this better? And then I send them everything and then they put the manuscript together and do cover design. I approve everything once it's all done.

Steve Vaughan (23:29)
All right.

Right.

And how much

would they cut and chop and change things from what you've written or does that happen these days?

Jay Farrell (23:55)
they, they, yeah, I do have, yeah, with the publisher, I've got a copy editor and I'll eventually do more with that publisher. even though I ventured off and did a self published for the first time with the coffee table book, but that's, that'll come later. But it's just kind of nice because I've got somebody in my corner like this copy editor and she'll clean up any grammar or punctuation. ⁓ that sort of thing. And, but, but it doesn't change the overall tone of the writing. just cleans it up.

Steve Vaughan (24:14)
Right. Interesting.

Nick Church (24:22)
So it's still your voice that's coming through. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (24:22)
Okay, interesting.

Jay Farrell (24:25)
Yes, very much so.

Steve Vaughan (24:27)
Interesting. We'll come onto the coffee table book in a second because I've got a coffee of it right here on my table. But up till then, which book are you most proud of?

Jay Farrell (24:31)
Yeah, sure.

Hard to say. The abandoned Eastern Kentucky book, I think, you know, I'm so partial to that one. Of course, there's many I'm proud of, but just the dark, oppressive history associated with coal mining. Of course, there's more, yeah, there's more to the area than that. But I just found it very interesting, but it doesn't have as much buzz as you mentioned Tennessee. Everybody thinks Nashville. Woo, you'll think it's something magical.

Steve Vaughan (24:46)
All right. ⁓

Jay Farrell (24:58)
And I live here, it's a great place, but it's just annoying as far as all the events and stuff. I got a plan everywhere I go around that. Otherwise, I'll think I'm in London on a much smaller scale.

Steve Vaughan (25:04)
sure. Yeah.

think when I was staying with you, the NFL draft was in town, so everywhere was crazy, wasn't it? We did manage to find a bar or two there, of course. Yeah.

Jay Farrell (25:17)
and I hated that.

Nick Church (25:18)
If I

lived in Nashville, I'd have to make sure my sat nav didn't take me anywhere near the Gibson guitar factory. I'd have to make sure I avoided it with a good few miles.

Steve Vaughan (25:25)
yeah, yeah.

Jay Farrell (25:30)
Well, you know, that's the first place I'll take you when you come.

Nick Church (25:33)
You can take my wallet and my phone off me before we go in.

Steve Vaughan (25:34)
There you go.

Jay Farrell (25:38)
and then maybe we'll go to the camera shop.

Steve Vaughan (25:41)
There is a cool camera.

There's a proper camera shop there. We went into the editing, which is a proper traditional camera shop with cables and widgets and everything. So it was a cool show. What was it called again?

Jay Farrell (25:48)
Yeah,

that was Dury's and ⁓ unfortunately they've closed ⁓ but a couple years later Pixel Connection opened a concept shop in Nashville ⁓ and now they're full time here. So I do my best to support them too. They're good folks and I think it's very much a needed thing. I think a lot of photographers make the mistake of buying what they don't understand and they're bad purchases.

Steve Vaughan (25:52)
That's right, no.

Right.

Yeah, good for you.

Jay Farrell (26:14)
If they go to the shop, they can bond with it hands on. And I think that's the way to choose your gear because it's an extension of you.

Steve Vaughan (26:14)
Yeah.

and a great mall.

Yeah, good point. We'll come on to game in a second, but let's just now mention the book that I've got on my desk. I didn't mention this on a podcast a few episodes ago, but this is your Route 66 Road Scape. So you've done something that I've always wanted to do, Route 66. But as you said, you published this book yourself as opposed to going through your publishing house. So why was that and what was the process behind that?

Jay Farrell (26:39)
Yes.

Well, I understand their reasons as well, but they keep everything regional because of distribution. ⁓

Steve Vaughan (26:54)
right. So they didn't want to

do it then, is that the reason you publish it yourself?

Jay Farrell (26:59)
Well, I probably could have talked him into it, doing it on a different scale, but it was, I wanted complete control of it. Even though of course, as a publishing company, I don't know what they know, but I think I knew enough to get me in trouble. But I don't regret it for one bit. Everybody says,

Steve Vaughan (27:01)
Okay.

Jay Farrell (27:17)
Even they told me about self-publishing that you don't have to be crazy to do it, but it helps. Yeah, they're 100 % right on that. But it just means that all the distribution and copy editing, it's on you unless you hire somebody.

Steve Vaughan (27:22)
Ha ha ha.

So did he do the whole of Route 66 and if so did he do it in one go?

Jay Farrell (27:36)
multiple times actually, multiple trips. I kind of did it in piecemeal. The first time I started off in Oklahoma City and went to Oatman, Arizona and then like to like the border at Needles, California. And I wanted to continue on, but I'd already been on the road for like 10 days and realized that I still had a long journey back.

Steve Vaughan (27:40)
Right.

Okay.

So again, for European listeners, give us an idea of how many miles that is.

Jay Farrell (28:02)
Well, the whole route is, I think, 2,248 miles going from Chicago to the Santa Monica Pier. The original terminus was at Seventh and Broadway in LA, not Santa Monica Pier. But I think the Santa Monica Pier is a bit more interesting as far as that goes. But yeah, I didn't make it there the first trip. I've made several journeys and returned to several spots just to get the photo that I wanted.

Steve Vaughan (28:13)
did know that, yeah. Okay.

Jay Farrell (28:25)
And I have a specific story about that for later. but, but, but yeah, but that, but that first trip, you know, that though I did the whole route and piecemeal, that was just so I could kind of explore what it was really like. A lot of people, if you listen to the wrong people, they'll you, it's decommissioned. There's nothing there. Well, not all the route is there. Some of it was bypassed and some of it is replaced by interstate or as a service road along the interstates. But a lot of it is still there and there's a lot of towns.

Steve Vaughan (28:27)
Now tell us now, go on, go ahead.

Jay Farrell (28:53)
Some have perished, absolutely. And others are alive and well, and they have motels and other businesses that need the support of visitors. And a lot of the time, they're going to be the reasons why it's a lifelong thing for me, that something's always going to draw me back. Whether it's a restaurant I liked or a motel I liked, or just the relationships I've forged along the way, something's always going to pull me back in.

Steve Vaughan (29:01)
Ciao.

Fantastic.

Nick Church (29:18)
So just for my ignorance, having never, been to, I've not gone across the US. I've traveled to San Diego and things, but so what you're saying is that because there's areas of Route 66 that have either closed or been replaced, there are villages, towns, communities that have just become ghost towns.

Jay Farrell (29:37)
There has been some, yes. And I can name specifics when I get to that part. I just don't want to overlook the, but yeah, but basically it was officially decommissioned, I think in 1985, but it was, you know, the most iconic highway that went from Chicago all the way to Los Angeles and a two lane road. And that was basically the option people had. And of course, in those days, people had a car full of screaming kids that were overheated because they didn't have air conditioning and

and they relied on those stops. The gas stations and the motels and cafes and it's shifted a lot because the interstates are going through those towns now and there's a lot more chain hotels and restaurants and all that but some of the oldies but goodies still stand because of the support of the tourists.

Steve Vaughan (30:23)
think Chuck Berry sung about the promised land. think the whole thing was going to California to make your name, moving from perhaps unemployment or whatever to start again. It was his whole dream of going west and building your life up or starting a new life afresh, really. think that's where a lot of the legend comes from around 1966. So what was your favorite part then, Jay? What was the bit you enjoyed most?

Nick Church (30:41)
Hmm.

Jay Farrell (30:45)
Yes.

Steve Vaughan (30:47)
Which?

Jay Farrell (30:48)
I love it. ⁓ It's almost

Nick Church (30:48)
Yeah.

you

Jay Farrell (30:51)
like you're asking me earlier about like my favorite book with the Fontenelle Media series. yeah, before I forget to answer that question, besides Eastern Kentucky, I really like abandoned schools of Tennessee, ⁓ abandoned Tennessee treasures and abandoned Albany. All those are special and I think I've reached a certain polish in my writing to where I can stamp my name on it and there's some things I was able to accomplish that I didn't think I could.

Steve Vaughan (31:01)
All right. OK, cool. I haven't got that one.

Jay Farrell (31:16)
So that was good. back to Route 60. Yes. But back to Route 66. Yeah, think. Yeah, if you listen to the wrong person, you'll get the wrong information. And the only way you're going to know is just to go explore it. it's impossible to pick a favorite because it's also different. I got to say, if I really had to, the desert region of California and that those are the areas that have become ghost towns.

Steve Vaughan (31:17)
And of course we'll link to your website where all the books are listed.

show.

Jay Farrell (31:41)
since the interstates have been built because the interstates were built far from its path. And I heard one story about, actually drove on my last trip out there in September of 24. I drove on a closed stretch. went past one of those barricades to get to, because there was a bridge washed out further up the the Road Runner Retreat, who was an old cafe and truck stop.

Steve Vaughan (31:46)
right.

Okay.

Jay Farrell (32:03)
near

Amboy, California, which is basically unpopulated at this point, except for Roy's Motel and Market that's still there. And they're trying to do like a resurgence of that area. And thanks to them, that could happen. But it's far from the interstate's path. And pretty much overnight when that happened, I think 1973, everything shut down. The places where people worked, you can walk through there. You can still see signs.

Steve Vaughan (32:25)
Incredible.

Jay Farrell (32:32)
you can still see crumbling buildings. That's where people worked. That's where people lived. And it's gone.

Steve Vaughan (32:35)
Amazing. And I think it's

any, know, as I mentioned to you before, Sam and I lived in the States for a number of years and we traveled extensively. It's any way you do that, you realize what a big place it is. And it's hard to understand really on you know, on a European scale. So Jay, let's talk a bit about camera gear then. So you mentioned right at the start of the chat that, you know, you use a camera system, which gets out the way, I think is what you said and lets you just focus on the creativity. So what is that camera system?

Nick Church (32:46)
Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah.

Jay Farrell (32:58)
Yes.

Actually, all my Route 66 adventures have been with my Leica Q2. And I've trained myself to use the one focal length, the 28 millimeter. It's not for everybody. It's just like using the old school 18 on the Fuji. And that's one of the most trash-talked lenses, but I think it's one of the best. It's one of the best. I mean, from a technical standpoint, it's not as sound as the 23.

Steve Vaughan (33:08)
Which, right.

I always thought it was a great lens. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Jay Farrell (33:25)
or the aperture ring is stiff and you there's but it's just the most fun one to use but i think it's a very hard one for somebody to master and i think that's what's rewarding for me and that's basically the same as my 28 um yeah because yeah they make a 43 millimeter version of it but you can only back up so far sometimes but you can always move closer most of the time but but i find it just suits me well and i've trained myself to master that focal length

Steve Vaughan (33:31)
Yeah.

sure.

And you can under full frame when you queue through and a Q2. Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Church (33:41)
Mm.

Steve Vaughan (33:46)
Yeah.

Yeah. ⁓

Jay Farrell (33:55)
and I pretty much just bring a backpack, a small tripod, and maybe some LED lights for night photography. And I keep it simple. I don't want to have to rummage through my whole kit bag like I would if I'm doing like a commercial headshot job or something like that. I want to keep it fun and minimalist. Spare batteries, sort of thing. it's...

Steve Vaughan (34:03)
And that's it. Yeah.

show. Yeah.

Yeah, amazing.

Jay Farrell (34:19)
got a simple menu system, you don't have to fumble. That's the reason I would hate Sony. But I'm not like really a tech guy, but hey, they do make a very fine product. I can't deny that. And really you can take wonderful photos with any camera system. And it doesn't really matter what it is. It's just you got to use the one that suits you. I just need... Exactly. Yeah. And I just need that analog feel that gets out of my way as quickly as possible. And Fuji resembles that as well.

Steve Vaughan (34:32)
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

The best camera is the one you've got in your hand, of course, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah.

Now I get that.

Yeah,

does. Yeah, it does for sure. Yeah. So

Jay Farrell (34:49)
me even though I think

a lot of the stuff in their menu doesn't need to be there either.

Steve Vaughan (34:54)
Now they're going in different directions aren't they at the moment, but that's guess another topic for another day. Jay it's been great catching up with you again mate and finding out what you've been up to. So what's next on the horizon? Is there anywhere that you still want to go and photograph that you haven't done yet? Perhaps for another book or another project?

Jay Farrell (35:12)
I didn't plan this book to be honest with you. I didn't do my first Route 66 trip with this intention at all. And it wasn't until my last couple. So basically kind of the order of things, I did that trip. And then I flew out to California, went to the Leica store in Los Angeles and then headed towards the, yeah, it was awesome. And did that. And I actually did a return trip to California and Arizona because there were some things I wanted to photograph at night.

Steve Vaughan (35:17)
Right.

I called his out.

Sure.

Jay Farrell (35:36)
went, you know, did a dedicated trip to Illinois, dedicated trip to Kansas. And I went with my girlfriend actually from Oklahoma up through Kansas, and Missouri. And, that was absolutely wonderful.

Steve Vaughan (35:48)
Right.

Jay Farrell (35:52)
There's always going to be that. I definitely think I want to explore more of West Texas, more of New Mexico, maybe even Utah, where there's just vast desert land. But one funny story about going back for a shot that would seem insane to most people, there was a motel court with like three little motor cabins. Just think of it as basically like a

Steve Vaughan (36:01)
Yeah.

Jay Farrell (36:14)
a large garage, like a and a half car garage with a... and that's about the size of these three little motel cabins. I photographed it before dark with my girlfriend actually and we went to a nearby buffalo ranch. By that point it had gotten dark. I went back with my LED panels and photographed one long exposure at night. I patiently waited for dark and I thought well this is really cool but there was three of them and I didn't have any more panels at the time. Well...

I said, I want all three lit up. I drove 530 miles, I think it was back to Afton, Oklahoma to get that shot. And it was 20, 25 degrees that night. but, and then made another trip just to go to Shamrock, Texas to photograph an old car salvage yard and got permission from the guy.

Steve Vaughan (36:52)
What?

Jay Farrell (37:02)
because that was in a locked gate and something bad could have happened if I didn't do it that way. So yeah, but that was just.

Steve Vaughan (37:07)
Sure. You have to send us that photo,

Jay, so we can put it in the social media promo for this episode. Yeah.

Nick Church (37:14)
Yeah, great idea.

Jay Farrell (37:15)
Absolutely. So I mean, really,

there's nothing that's too far. You just got to do it if it's inspiring. And that's really what I want to convey to other photographers. Yeah, you're not going to get the shot if you don't take the risk and go through the trouble. And it's the experience that stays with you for a long time because at that moment nothing else matters if you're doing it right.

Steve Vaughan (37:21)
Absolutely.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Fantastic stuff. Jay, I know it's quite.

Nick Church (37:34)
I suppose a lot of

people wouldn't be able to justify, I don't know, taking two or three days off work to do that. But I suppose if people are traveling somewhere, you could budget an extra day to do something or an extra half a day en route to get some of these sorts of photos.

Jay Farrell (37:50)
For me it's worth it. Absolutely. I mean, ⁓ you got to.

Steve Vaughan (37:55)
Jay, I know it's quite early for you there

in the States right now. We're recording this at lunchtime in the UK, so we should let you get off. Thanks so much for coming on the pod. Nick and I are going to catch up on a couple of things as well. Feel free to get off if you need to go, but also feel free to hang around and chip in if you want to add to anything. We're going have a bit of a catch up on a couple of other things. But great to see you, mate, and look forward to getting you over this side of the pond sometime.

Nick Church (37:59)
Thank

Jay Farrell (38:16)
Good to see you.

I can't wait. Thanks for having me. Great to see y'all. Take care.

Nick Church (38:19)
Thanks a Jay.

Steve Vaughan (38:22)
They're great stuff.

Nick Church (38:22)
You too.

Steve Vaughan (38:24)
So Nick, have you bought anything since I last spoke to you? Camera wise.

Nick Church (38:28)
No, I haven't. don't think I've sold some stuff because I, I, I've got my Mavic, three pro, three pro. and they, they reduced, the DJI thing, I think I said this poor actually just returned, gave me a brand new one because the album was damaged. So I put that on eBay about a week and then about the same time that they released the Mavic four didn't get the, didn't get the price I hoping, but,

Steve Vaughan (38:36)
Okay.

Typical.

Nick Church (38:52)
That's that's gone. So so that's a good bit of good for the old coffers. No, but I am at the Wales and West photography show tomorrow. So, yeah, I might have a nose around there. doing it. I'm doing a talk at the ICC culture in Wales, you know, the big exhibition center. It's the same talk I did at the photography show, which is wedding photography business, photography business.

Steve Vaughan (39:00)
⁓

dangerous.

What's the tool come?

Nick Church (39:17)
mythbusters, what we think photography is going to be like, and then the reality and how we can try and make it more like what we thought it might be because you can you just have to, you know, go through a few more hoops than you thought.

Steve Vaughan (39:18)
Yeah, yeah, I got you.

Hahaha.

And

of course, by the time the listeners listen to this, you'll have delivered that talk, but I'm sure it will go really, really well. We... I'm sure they'll be queuing all the way down to M4, they? Just to get that.

Nick Church (39:34)
Yeah, there'll probably be thousands of people there, you know, watching me and you know, roses being thrown

and all kinds of things like that. So I'll update you. I'll update listeners next time about whether that was the case.

Steve Vaughan (39:42)
Might be roses, might be something else. Look forward to hear from you on that.

So we bought something because it was the end of our financial year, the end of May. So it was like, spend a bit of money rather than give it to Rachel Reeves. If you don't know who Rachel Reeves is, she's our chancellor of the Czech. She's responsible for the taxation in this country. So we bought a Sony 85 millimeter 1.4. I mentioned to you last time that we were thinking of getting it and then we went and bought it. I've only used it at one wedding so far, but as you'd expect with the Sony.

Nick Church (39:54)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Vaughan (40:10)
and lens it's incredibly quick it's incredibly sharp and it works just like every other Sony lens that you've got in your bag in other words it just does the job so yeah brilliant love it

Nick Church (40:12)
Hmm.

that's, that's

firmly on my list as well. maybe, yeah, maybe next year. I could at get, rid of my old one, but yeah, it's a, it's a lovely focal length that, and when you've got this speed of the performance of that version to that, that, that newer one, it's just absolutely killer.

Steve Vaughan (40:27)
Yeah.

Yeah.

It worked really well actually, because we were at a church, quite a big church for the wedding. It came on the Thursday and I used it on the Saturday. I was quite a long way back for the, not because the vicar and sister, it was just a lay out of the church really. So whereas I'm normally 24, 50, I was 85, 35 that day. And it worked brilliantly for that really. It was just perfect. And of course on the R4, if I needed to, I could just flip it into super 35 mode and use it as a 135 as well. Yeah.

Nick Church (41:02)
Yeah, right. Yeah.

Steve Vaughan (41:04)
So it's a great combo, really. So so I can't I'm conscious that you need to get off as well. So let's bring the episode to an end, but perhaps just say about what we're going to plan to do for the next show, because you've got a videographer, mate, you think you would like to join us in terms of interesting kit.

Nick Church (41:17)
Yeah. Yeah. So,

and I, he's Jan Willem. and I don't say his second name because it's so long. ⁓ and I will just, I would just mess it up, but yeah, he's really good pal of mine. but it's like, there's lots of Ises and Jays and Kays. it's Con Eagansburg, Con Eagansburg, think. ⁓ but yeah, he's, first off a fantastic filmmaker, but is well into his kit as you asked even, and I hear you kind of talking.

Steve Vaughan (41:25)
You

Okay. Okay.

No.

Nick Church (41:43)
about

similar sort of products due to say he's my go-to person every time I work with him, which is often he's always got a brand new bit of kit that he's using it. And it's not just I've got this thing and it's just a sort of bit of an additional thing is actually really useful. So he's very precise at getting some really, you know finding some really good deals and find some really good bits of kit that solve specific problems. So I thought it'd be, yeah, I thought it'd be an interesting guest for us to have and for the listeners.

Steve Vaughan (42:01)
Fantastic. Can't wait to meet him.

So what we're going to do for that one,

the listeners is Nick and I have both separately done what's in our camera bags, obviously myself with my wife and partner, Samantha. So what we're going to do with this one with, with your mate is what kind of useful bit of kit have we got lurking in the depth of our bag that we wouldn't necessarily think of. So, you know, the accessories, the ansettos, the add-ons, all that kind of stuff. think is what we're going to do. Yeah. Yeah. All of that. Yeah. Yeah. That'd be fun. Yeah. I'm sure we'll have some, some great ideas on that one. So as well. Yeah.

Nick Church (42:27)
the small rig setups, your frames and adding on all that sort of stuff. know, perfect.

Steve Vaughan (42:34)
And as always, dear Lister, if you have any idea for what you'd like us to cover in the show over the next few weeks coming up, Nick and I are going to be deep into wedding season. We've got a really busy August, September and October coming up. of course, Nick is always busy with his property photography as well, of course, with the creative academy as well. But if there's anything you'd like us to cover, then do let us know. We'd love to hear from you.

Nick Church (42:51)
Yeah, except me,

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

Steve Vaughan (42:58)
In the meantime,

if you've enjoyed the show, don't forget to leave us a review on Spotify or Google or Google, even Apple podcasts, because it does help us in lots of weird and wonderful ways as well. Don't forget to check out the Facebook group, which is just a photography pod where we do share more details about the guests that we have on the show, but also general chat about photography. So we'd to have more people in that group and starting to become its own living reason thing in its own right, really.

We are also putting these shows on YouTube as and when we can. We're a little bit behind because we're both working photographers, but we will get them up there. Now you've got plenty on your plate.

Nick Church (43:30)
Yeah, that's, that's my fault. I'm working through them.

They will also the YouTube versions will also are also going on to the Nicholash creative Academy as well. There's a podcast section there as well. So that's just an additional way if somebody's in the Academy, then they can also look at the look at the podcast episodes.

Steve Vaughan (43:40)
great. Okay.

Yeah, it's good to you. Brilliant stuff. Brilliant.

Thanks for listening to Alistair and watching. If you watch this on YouTube, we'll be back again in a couple of weeks time. Until then, happy photography and we'll talk to you soon.

Nick Church (43:54)
Bye bye.