Sujata Setia - Multi award winning photographer and artist

Steve and Nick's special guest for this episode is Sujata Setia. 

Sujata is a multi award winning photographer and artist. As well as her family and materity photography, Sujata also has her personal projects that combine both photography and art. 

Her personal work includes "Changing the Conversation", a startling body of work of images of people with challenges including burns survivors and rare conditions. Her latest project, "A Thousand Cuts", is an extraordinary project where Sujata, using a combination of photography and art, has produced powerful images of domestic abuse survivors from South Asia. The title of the project is a metaphor from the ancient form of torture known as Linchi. Sujata has received numerous awards for A Thousand Cuts, including winning the creative category for the Sony World Photography Awards in 2024. 

Sujata's family and materity photography, under the brand of But Natural Photography has a gorgeous warm and high class style and has led to her building a successful business in Kent, Essex, London and surrounding areas. 

This show is one of two podcasts Steve and Nick will release as part of the build up to International Women's Day on March 8th 2025. 

But Natural Photography : https://butnaturalphotography.com/

Sujata's personal website : https://sujatasetia.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/butnaturalphotography; 

https://www.instagram.com/sujatasetia/

Nick Church and Steve Vaughan are professional wedding photographers based in the UK. They both use Sony Alpha cameras and lenses.

Nick's website : https://www.nickchurchphotography.co.uk/
Nick's Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/nickchurchphotography/

Steve's website : https://www.samandstevephotography.com/
Steve's Wedding Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/samandstevephotography/
Steve's personal Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/stevevaughanphotography

Any technical information given by the presenters is based on their understanding and opinion at the time of recording

Transcript

Steve: [00:00:00] Hello again, and welcome to The Photography Pod, a photography podcast for both working professionals and enthusiast photographers alike. My name is Steve Vaughan. And once again, I'm here with my good mate, Nick Church. This show is going to be a little bit different. So we normally start with a little bit of a chat, a bit of background about the week that we've had and what we've been up to, but we've got such a fascinating guest today that we really want to go straight in to finding out a lot more about our guest and about her photography and also about her personal journey.

So I'm going to hand over straight away to Nick, who's going to introduce our guest today. 

Nick: Hello, listeners yeah, thank you for joining and for downloading this episode of photography pod. Yeah, today we have Sujata and with us today and Sujata grew up in Jaipur in India and worked in the TV and radio industry in India there before moving to London for her Master's in International Relations.

Now her photography as I was talking to Steve beforehand, most photographers mention about award winning. This is definitely the case with [00:01:00] Sujata. So Sujata Jeter has, She's won a huge, huge acclaim across the world for awards for her work. And it, her work highlights the issues facing women all over the world and challenges those cultural norms that we assume in terms of photography about what makes a beautiful photo and it's just absolutely fascinating and we're really delighted to have her on today.

As we approach International Women's Day in March, then there's no better time to have a female photographer with us and so we're delighted. To welcome her. I should add that today's episode will contain issues around child and domestic abuse. So I just wanted to make that clear before we start.

So Jata, thank you so much for joining us. How are you today? 

Sujata: Hi, I'm good. Hi, Nick. Hi, Steve. 

Nick: Great to have you here, Jata. Thank you for being with us. So I've given a very quick potted history. I suspect that was probably possibly not even all correct, but it was probably far too brief. Would you like to give us a bit of a background about your journey into photography?

Sujata: My God, it's so difficult to talk about yourself, [00:02:00] because as artists, our work is constantly evolving. So when somebody asks me to talk about my work it's I think by far the most challenging thing. So yeah, I grew up in India, in Jaipur, which is the north of India. And then I got married, which was the reason why I moved to the UK.

And in the first year of having moved to the UK, I did my master's from from King's College in International Relations. Funnily, couldn't find a job here in the UK for a good five years, which sort of threw me in a deeper and a darker depression than I already was holding within me. For a very long time.

And that's when somehow a camera became my alternative language. A way for me to communicate my inner darkness to the world that I wasn't able to communicate in words. And was also around the time when my daughter was born. So I started by taking photographs of her and it was a great way for me to build a bond with her.

A bond where there was no power tussle between her and me. [00:03:00] She and I were at an equal level playing field, so the camera became that sort of a Balancer and that's where my photography journey really started So did 

Nick: you have no background in photography before then? 

Sujata: No, none at all. 

Nick: Wow.

Sujata: Yeah. So 

Nick: the we're going to move on to those other projects that I briefly mentioned at the introduction. But you're also well known for your maternity and family and newborn photography. And I would. I say in quotes, more traditional photography, but it's anything, but it's just a really beautiful work to the list that can see starters work under the brand, but natural photography.

So www. com. Yeah, you can find it in the notes. I just want to just briefly touch upon the, but natural photography work. You have this incredibly warm, but not overly warm, but just a very pleasing otherworldly almost approach to your work. Is that just something that evolved or is that an intentional way that you try to create your photography?[00:04:00] 

Sujata: I think Nick, my work is very autobiographical, has always been, and it's it's always come from a place of me trying to express something, an alternative universe that perhaps is a way for me to erase my own traumatic childhood or a way to face it head on. Either way, it was autobiographical. So why I worked towards making these very magical, almost fantastical portraits of families was a way for me to tell myself that this is how the perfect world works.

Is meant to be that there is pure and an unconditional love and nothing ever really goes wrong So you would see a lot of beautiful elderly love portraits and yeah, so that's one of the reason why I naturally transitioned into that kind of work. But it was a slow development. It the technique came with time.

Steve: So it's almost and, if you're not comfortable speaking about this then please say, obviously you've had a, you had a difficult childhood in India from what you're saying and reading, noting your website, suffered abuse as a child. You're saying it's almost like you're [00:05:00] wanting to bring in your person, in your work, should I say a much more pleasant, happier place, a warm, definitely a warm, a loving place, because you didn't experience that as a child.

Sujata: Yeah. 

Nick: Okay. Wow. So I'm just sharing, I'm just sharing some of these images now so that people that are viewing this podcast rather than just listening to it cause if you are not listening, if you are listening to it and not viewing it, then if you head to the show notes, then you'd be able to find a page with these photos on they.

Yeah, they are just what's your process around, what's your kit starting with it for these? 

Sujata: Started off, I think the very first camera, funnily, I had no idea. I had remembered would just go on Facebook and I. Would start off by looking at these American photographers who would use a large 70 by 200 lenses.

And some of them had 200 prime lenses. And I just knew somehow that maybe that's the kit to be using. So I remember telling my husband, I need the best camera in the market. That's all that my [00:06:00] brief to him was. And then he went and, uh, he That's exactly what he told the store owner. Can you give me the best camera?

So he got a Nikon D800, which is where I started my professional journey from. And I still hold on to that camera. It's a beautiful camera body. So Nikon D800 and 70 f2. 8 was my starting kit lens, which is what I used to make outdoor portraits. Which was amazing because for outdoor portraits and the kind of whimsical look that I was going for shooting wide open is a great idea.

So I used to always shoot at focal length and F 2. 8 aperture wide open. So which is why you would get a great depth of field as well. And indoors, my go to lens was f1. 4 at that time. 

Nick: Okay. And in terms of your process to create these very smooth, especially the portrait of this couple here, it is almost otherworldly.

Is that a, if you've got a quite a Photoshop heavy? [00:07:00] Post production workflow. 

Sujata: I'd not call it Photoshop heavy, really, those people would you've just got to really get it right in the camera as well. It's very important. Your lighting is very critical. Your styling is extremely important to know that you're not going to use more than two or three main colors.

So you match your colors according to what background you're seeking. Very important. Then you get the light, right? Wherein there is balance. Exposure on the faces of the subjects, not too much brightness not too much highlights and shadows. So if you've got that even balance on their skin tones then what else is important?

The depth of field, like I said, there has to be an a great distance between the subject and the background. Nothing should be blocking the background from the back. So if you're keeping all of these basic checkpoints cleared out, then you're good. Straight out of camera is a really good, clean image to work with.

And then the editing is very basic. So I would work with levels, curves and solid color layers. And I think pretty much that's about it. And it would work for me. 

Nick: Yeah, no, it looks lovely. And [00:08:00] I think the, that idea of making sure you've got the right contrast in the scene in the actual scene, rather than, requiring it to be edited later is always going to be the best way.

And I think that's where we get the examples like this. The best portraits come from is having all that stuff. In the camera before you even start your post processing. So the other, so you've got the there's the, but there's the but natural photography, then the other half of your, um, photography output is through Sujata setia.

com. So www Sujata setia. com. And this is where we find your more humanitarian work, if we can call it that. And it's. It's very different. I'm going to share some images shortly. How do you navigate those two, brands or styles of output when you've got one very storytelling, very emotive and challenging work compared with just really beautiful family images.

Is there [00:09:00] overlap in how you approach those two sides, those two types of shoots? 

Sujata: It was when I started to make that transition, to be honest, Nick, it was a very natural sort of transition. It wasn't like I was consciously trying to move away from child and family portraits. So I The starting point was to have a solid client base with the commercial child family commissions and to know that I am in a financial and business space now where I'm able to take that measured risk where I can make work That is truly for myself, 

Steve: so that pays the bills effectively that 

Sujata: it is important at the end of the day.

We are artists. Yes, but we are also people who have to bring bread on the table. You need to straddle those two parts of your professional life in a balanced way. Yes. So then when I started to make that transition, I made it very smoothly in a way that my work was visually not taking away so markedly that my audiences that was already built on my social media platforms would not relate to it.

So when I [00:10:00] started making the work, for example, the CDs changing the conversation where I am looking at breaking the binaries of beauty and showcasing how beauty is way much than way more than just. Pretty or ugly, good or bad, boy or girl, red or pink. So there are lots of things that exist between those two binaries.

I started off initially by photographing mothers and children. Mothers from different walks of life and their children together. So it was a natural transition from my family portraits. And then slowly, then I moved into photographing people with other visible differences as well. And individuals in that sense.

Yeah, yeah, that way it worked well for me also because sometimes as artists when you're so comfortable in your space of creating a certain kind of work in your identities. Attached to it. It also becomes difficult for you as a as an artist to step away from it. 

Steve: Yeah. 

Sujata: It's scary.

Steve: It's a bit like pushing out your comfort zone a little bit as well into something very different. Something very challenging really. When you approach people for these kind of portraits what do they think? What's their, what do they say when you say you're interested in taking the photos?

[00:11:00] Are they surprised? Are they pleased? 

Sujata: When I approach them, I am actually most of the times confused myself. I don't know where I'm heading towards because these personal projects are Coming also from a space of confusion, from an internal chaos where I don't know what is it that I'm trying to really say or what is it that I'm looking for.

So I would be very honest with these with the participants. I would tell them that I'm looking at creating your portraits. This is my reason. I believe that it is important as a mother of a 10 year old when that was the time when I started working with the the series. That I feel that I need to break down these barriers.

And that's the way I can pay back through my art. Would you be able to, would you be happy to collaborate with me? And all I can give you in return is visibility for your own narratives as well through my social media channels. And then many would want to just share their story and not partake.

Many would partake. So it would be, it be entirely based on consent and respect. And then I think everybody's been very happy with their portraits. They feel like there's enough there's a lot of dignity and they are showcased [00:12:00] the way they want to be showcased. There was no again, there, there was complete consent and participation.

I think 

Nick: that they're just such powerfully beautiful portraits. I think I'm just blown away by them. I really love them. 

Steve: Absolutely. 

Nick: So this is the the this project was your, is it challenging the conversation changing the conversation? My apologies. And your most recent work the most recent Exhibition is the project was called a thousand cuts which is quite different again.

And if I share some of these while I'm sharing these, would you like to just talk a bit about that project? 

Sujata: Yeah. So a thousand cuts is a series. It's an interdisciplinary series. It's the very first work that I have made, which is not entirely photography, but something more than that. So I engage another artistic process in it, besides photography, which is called the art of paper cutting.

And it is a series that tries to look at domestic abuse within the South Asian culture. It is a work that I have made with [00:13:00] with conversations and participation of individual domestic abuse survivors. So I've spoken with, I think, over 30 to 35 survivors by now. And there are 17 portraits in this work so far.

And I am, it's an ongoing series. So in this for the very first time I've moved beyond pure photography. I've also involved my own journalistic past in it. So it's very research based. It's very participation based. It's also, again, like I said, I would print the photograph of the survivor and then I would make physical cuts on top of it to show the multidimensionality of Domestic abuse how it starts from somebody's past becomes someone's present and then goes on to become somebody else's future 

Steve: Could you just say a bit about?

Where the thousand cuts come from because reading on your website it comes from an ancient form of torture, I believe for you 

Sujata: Yes. So there is an ancient South Asian form an Asian form of torture called death by a thousand cuts or Lingchi. Lingchi, in which the, it's a bit cathartic, but in which the perpetrator would essentially start to make small incisions [00:14:00] on the part body of the victims.

Small enough to not kill the victim all at once but large enough to hurt. And through those incisions on a regular basis the pain would normalize in the mind of the victim would slowly stop feeling the pain because it is happening on such a regular basis. So that's exactly the sort of metaphor I wanted to work with to showcase that domestic abuse is such a cyclical process wherein the perpetrator would inflict violence of whatever format on you.

Apologize and within seconds that pain would be normalized and within seconds, then it would happen all over again. So yeah, that's the metaphor I wanted to use for this work. 

Steve: It's a phrase that was used in everyday language, we talk about in business, the death by 1000 cuts, it's used as a metaphor for, businesses that are declining or whatever, but I never realized actually, it was a real, it comes from a real, form of torture, horrific, and I can absolutely see the analogy with the normalization of domestic abuse and how that [00:15:00] becomes every little instant becomes the new normal most really.

Yeah. Amazing. 

Nick: Now your work, this project around child abuse and domestic violence or domestic violence in this case, that, that comes from lived experiences for you. And I can't imagine what these experiences must be like, but I also can't. Bear to even try and think what they might be like it and so how difficult is it for you to immerse yourself in topics like this with that background?

Sujata: I think Nick, I've reached a stage in my personal life journey where I feel like it is important for me to face these personal pains. Like I said, when I was making that whimsical work, I was in a, I was in a space emotionally where I was just running away from my trauma and then there came a point where I had no other choice.

As a result of my circumstances, but to face it head on, it was following the passing of my mother and I had to give closure to this. I had to, and the best thing I could really do for myself and the community that we have collectively built around with each other, the [00:16:00] survivors and myself is to be able to find this sort of collective healing where we had the space to just have endless conversations without one person judging the other's narrative.

Or without one stopping the other from talking any further. There was just this open door policy where you come in, talk, if you want to leave your story behind, leave it. If you want to come back again and be part of the project, do that. It was just such a beautiful space that I felt like I was finally finding healing to something I had been carrying with me for N 40 years.

So yeah. Wow. 

Nick: I could I, for more than any other project I can think of that person centered approach to your work must be in evidence here that the photography happens, presumably quite away down the process of gaining trust and that sort of thing. Yeah, 

Steve: absolutely. So these are remarkable images, really.

I think there's no other word for it, really. And, the awards that you've won, absolutely, completely well deserved. Just tell us how you go about, the image we've got on the screen [00:17:00] right now, tell us how about you go about preparing an image like that. And also, how long would it take?

Sujata: This came, this work actually really, Steve, came with multiple iterations. Because this is the very first time I was faced with the challenge of not being able to tell, showcase the sitters. Identity and as a portrait photographer, I've only worked with people's faces. That's for me, the window to showcase somebody's somebody's emotions and their narrative.

This was quite a big challenge for me. But though obviously for various reasons the survivors did not want their faces to be showcased. So when we started working, there were many different iterations I came up with. Finally, together when, we sat down and listened to all the interviews over and over again, the one thing that came through was every survivor said that I feel like I'm completely torn from within.

I feel like my soul is so fully injured if you look at me from inside and that's what we tried to then showcase in the work and you, which is the reason why I tried to use the art of paper cutting. Paper [00:18:00] cutting is also a very traditional South Asian artistic format and it was. Long back, historically, it was used by in Hinduism, there is a god called Krishna.

And Krishna is a very loving god. I'd say he's filled with love, so he has a lot of consorts. He has a wife, but he also has a lot many consorts. All the consorts would utilize the form of paper cutting to make these beautiful prints, artworks to impress. So for me, when I studied that art form, I felt like it had an inherent gender bias in it, where it is showcasing that the role of a woman is to impress the man and the role of the man is to be impressed.

Again, it's very subjective. Somebody else would take that paper cutting art form completely differently. For me, this was the interpretation. So that worked really beautifully for me to employ that for this specific story that we were trying to showcase. Which is why we utilized it here.

And then when I started working on the paper cutting I would go back to the story of the survivor and look at one of the metaphors that I could pick from it. For example, this [00:19:00] survivor, we both collectively, through our conversations, when I was listening to her, I told her you really sound like a butterfly to me, whose wings were clipped.

And she said, that's exactly who I was. And who I am now once I've left his house. So it was almost like a dialogue we were having with each other where we came up with this it wasn't her me imposing that on her or her not giving it to me. It was just a mutual conversation through with this game.

And then that's exactly what we put through. 

Steve: So what is the process then? So are you literally, you have a photograph on top of I guess red card or paper and you're literally cutting pieces out the photograph to reveal the red. Is that what you're doing? 

Sujata: So I would photograph the survivor, in whatever setting is most comfortable for them Usually it would be an indoor space either they would come over Or we would find a common space whichever is closer for them and we'd go there.

I just put a Hand painted backdrop. I have a foldable very cheap hand painted back backdrop, which I carry with me everywhere We do the photo shoot then I print it on a a4 size sheet on my home printer cheap home printer [00:20:00] I'm a poor photographer now So just put print it. And then I just start making cuts on top of it without any sketches or anything, just a broad idea in my head.

I'd start making cuts on top. And then I would place a red paper underneath of it and re photograph that entire, uh, collage, as you could say. And that re photographed version is what you see here. 

Steve: Incredible. So you've won lots of awards on the back of this project and just looking on your website, there's there's the Sony Wolf Photography Awards with, we immediately saw that because we're both Sony photographers.

What was the response when you first started showing this kind of work? Cause it's so different. Were people surprised? Were people shocked? Or did you find that people immediately, got what you were trying to do? 

Sujata: I can honestly say a lot of visibility has come to this work thanks to Sony World Photography Awards because until that award came through, I was literally walking with my little A4 size box in which I had all of these artworks and I was going door to door trying to showcase this work to people [00:21:00] and not because I was seeking any sort of validation or because I wanted visibility for myself as an artist, but I was very hungry for our stories to go out.

And I felt such a such an insurmountable burden on my shoulders that I'm getting these stories of women who have generously given me their time and their Life's narratives. And I am nowhere with this. I just have it all, put in a box again, and I'm nobody's looking at it. And it was a very difficult time.

But Sony World Photography Award suddenly came through. And the life of this project has completely changed after that. 

Nick: Amazing. Yeah, the responsibility, I can imagine the responsibility of having all of those stories, and you wanted to share them, it must have been really stressful to, and to find that.

the way to communicate those through that award and what that's ended up, resulting in it just, it's just fantastic. And you're, is this part of your talk at the photography show? Were you talking about this area of your work? 

Sujata: I will be. 

Nick: [00:22:00] Sujata's session is on the 8th of March at So 550 and it's the photographer's exploration of purpose.

Would you like to just do a bit of introduction around your session? 

Sujata: I will be speaking about my journey from child and family portraits from a very fantastical photography career to something more, I would say social impact based work and how that, how to, like I said, straddle two different careers one, which is very commercial commissions based and the other, which has impact and how do you promote your work?

How do you get new commissions and how do you balance a personal and professional? 

Nick: Perfect. And your the thousand cuts project was being exhibited in, it was in Hyderabad in India. 

Sujata: It was in Chennai. Right now it's being exhibited in Chennai as of now. 

Nick: Perfect.

And is there any plans for that to go outside of India for people? 

Sujata: It will be showcased in photo [00:23:00] from in April at Derby format festival in March and at photo London in me. 

Nick: Okay. And the, and your website the sojatasetya. com is that the best place for people to find out where they may be able to see this exhibition?

Sujata: It would be Instagram. That would be the best 

Steve: place. I'm fascinated to know what's next because you've come from such a, a personal journey, from the horrific experiences as a child, moving country. Obviously going through the depression you mentioned starting a very successful, portrait and maternity, sorry, childbirth newborn.

That's the right phrase. I wanted newborn photography and now going into this very personalized, very, um, very sort of individual style of photography. Where do you see yourself going next? What will be the next thing on the horizon for you? 

Sujata: Showcasing social impact steve is where my heart lies.

Women narratives that haven't been spoken about for the longest [00:24:00] time abuse is where my Core is going to be. I know I have started to get commissioned work based on my social impact work already like i've just secured a king's college london grant for working with The artisanal women artisanal community in kashmir so it's exciting.

It's exciting times for me. It's almost like starting all over again and literally taking those big baby steps. But I'm very happy about the fact that the work that I truly want to make is finding its way back to me. So yeah that's where I'm heading towards. 

Steve: And will the more commercial stuff where you'll still do that, is that still the paying the bills mostly at this stage?

Yeah, 

Sujata: I do have a steady stream of clients. So it's It's a good space. 

Steve: Great. Love it. Fantastic. Yeah. 

Nick: Thank you so much, Sujata, for giving up a bit of your day. Now you're off for childcare duties soon, by the sound of it. But thank you very much for joining us. It's been great. Completely fascinating.

And as I said your work is just mind blowing. I really love it. [00:25:00] So anyone that's listening, do look at the show notes page. We'll have some images on there and links to all of Sujata's work. And her website and the Instagram feed. So you can see the sort of recent updates and where the exhibitions might be.

Steve: And just for the listeners right now who can't wait, just give us the two Instagram channels if you could. What are they called? 

Sujata: It's Sujata Setia. One is, and the other is But Natural Photography. 

Steve: Okay. And they're very easy to find. Yeah. Sujata, thank you so much for your time today. And I'll be at the photography show.

Nick, I know he's talking there as well. So it'd be great to meet you face to face as well. Absolutely. Thanks again for your time today. 

Sujata: Can't wait.