The Photography Pod
Nick Church and Steve Vaughan host The Photography Pod, a show for both working professional photographers and enthusiast snappers.
Nick and Steve are professional photographers and educators based in the UK, and welcome you to the world of photography. The show features guest interviews with photographers from all genres of photography as well as technical and gear discussions.
Nick and Steve both use Sony Alpha mirrorless cameras and lenses.
The Photography Pod
Episode 5: Tesni Ward - Wildlife Photographer, OM System Ambassador
Steve and Nick's guest for this episode is the Peak District based wildlife and landscape photographer Tesni Ward. An OM System ambassador, she describes how redundancy from a role in medical sales drove her to become a full time photographer, and how she makes a living from her passion. She delves in to the (many) pros for her in using an OM-1 micro 4/3rds camera and lens system, and the (very) few downsides, as she see it. She also describes how she approaches photographing wildlife in a natural environment is such a captivating way.
Steve is juggles the whirlwind of wedding photography deadlines while preparing to appear in a musical theatre show, "Kings and Queens," while Nick shares tales from his recent Sicilian adventure. Between snorkeling near Mount Etna and a jellyfish encounter that left him with some unexpected souvenirs, Nick reflects on the social dynamics of travel and weddings. This episode uncovers the balance between professional and personal pursuits, blending humor and insight into the challenges of maintaining multiple passions.
The industry news section is on the demise and apparent rebirth of Rotorlight, the UK based LED photo/video lighting company, and the rumours of a new Sony camera being launched in November. Nick reflects on why camera brands are so fixated at the vlogging/content creator market for new products. Steve discusses the pros and cons of using flash modifiers at weddings.
Nick Church and Steve Vaughan are professional wedding photographers based in the UK. They both use Sony Alpha cameras and lenses.
Nick's website : https://www.nickchurchphotography.co.uk/
Nick's Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/nickchurchphotography/
Steve's website : https://www.samandstevephotography.com/
Steve's Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/samandstevephotography/
Any technical information given by the presenters is based on their understanding and opinion at the time of recording
you're listening to the photography pod, a show for both working professionals and enthusiast photographers alike.
Speaker 2:And here's your hosts, steve vaughn and nick church hello again and welcome to the photography pod, a photography podcast for both working professionals and enthusiast photographers alike. My name name is Steve Vaughan and once again I'm here with my good mate, nick Church. Nick, how are you doing?
Speaker 3:I'm very well, steve. How are you? Hope everyone's well listening as well. Yeah, been a pretty hectic couple of weeks, as I know you have as well. What have you been up to, steve?
Speaker 2:Wellve well, finishing off weddings. So we've had a couple more weddings since the last show, um. And speaking of shows, I'm in a show, I'm in a. I'm in a musical, would you believe. So my wife and I've been involved in bambi operatic, now off and on, for a number of years, and um, more off than on in recent years. But they're putting a show on right now. If at the end of this week, in fact by the time the listener hears this, hopefully it'll all have been done and dusted.
Speaker 2:But it's a show called kings and queens, so it's just different songs from different musicals, uh. And it's a bit of a fundraiser really, because it's cheaper than putting on a whole show. But because I'm male and I've also got a pulse, uh, and I can just about sing, I'm in demand because they're always short men for these things. So so every night this week we've had rehearsals and we're not quite ready, shall we say. So it's full dress rehearsal tonight, and that's why I haven't had a shave yet, because of stage makeup and stuff. It is a lot of fun, but you just kind of take over your life a little bit when it gets closer to show week. So I'll be kind of glad when it's over a little bit as well. But I was also away for a few days. I had a couple of days up in the peat district, which I think we'll come back to later in the in the show, spend a couple of days walking with one of the dogs. But you've been away, I think as well, haven't you?
Speaker 3:I went to sicily, yeah, so it was oh very nice. Yeah, it was lovely. Yeah, it was great weather and very much needed bit of sort of just r and r. Um, yeah, it was good. Didn't go up mount etna. I wanted to, but it was, I figured I. I looked at the options to go out there. It's really expensive and I didn't have any of the kit I would need. I didn't quite realize you need decent walking boots and a big jacket which when it's 30 degrees elsewhere you don't really put that in your luggage. But no, it's beautiful, absolutely beautiful place, beautiful food scenes. I did actually take some photos, which is the first for a few years when I've been away um.
Speaker 3:I was swimming in um. We went on this boat trip and it was to um, just down from termina, which is where the white lotus was filmed, if you've seen that on netflix.
Speaker 3:Yeah, um. So it's a little bay just just down there. So I was snorkeling in there. So I love a bit of um, snorkeling and, and I was thinking about that, this, this must, it was, it's right at the base of that. So it must have been historically all of the landscape formed when, you know, through eruptions and so on. So I was thinking that lava must have been poured into this, into this bay, and, you know, this base reformed by that lava. And as I did that, I suddenly became aware of like a bit of heat on my foot and I thought that's weird, you know, weird how the the mind can trigger these kind of actual physical things. And then I first got my hand and then my armpit and then looked up and saw a shit load of jellyfish so I swear jellyfish and I picked up loads of stings all over my all down one side. So, um, I suddenly sort of got out of that area and I got back in the boat and, yeah, had some nice sort of battle scars for I'm terrified of them.
Speaker 2:I'm absolutely. I've got a real focus jellyfish ever since I was a kid going on holiday to north wales. I'm really, really frightened of jellyfish seriously they're.
Speaker 3:They're only these were they're called and I I googled them and they're, they're called um. There's a latin name, but they're called um mauve stingers because they're just these tiny little, you know, unassuming looking, looking thing really packed quite a punch and I was on the um. It's funny, on this on this boat, there was um myself and dawn, there's a couple from japan, a couple from germany, there's, yeah, probably about sort of eight, ten of us and it's just really interesting to look at the dynamics of of how everyone kind of socializes things like that, because I'm a complete introvert, right. So I, I really don't my natural thing, it's not. It's not. It's not me saying I don't want to talk to anybody, it's just my natural places. I'm not going to start a conversation, you know, it just doesn't occur to me.
Speaker 3:And, looking around, some people were the same and other people were fascinated by each other.
Speaker 3:They were all you know, and I thought that's really interesting, how all like that, all slightly different, and and when, when I and I noticed it when I work with other photographers at weddings and things like that that some of us are, you know, when it comes to the sort of food bit, you know, we've always talked.
Speaker 3:We always talk about what, what you do at food time at a wedding, you know, do you this thing about? Sometimes you get invited to sit down with the guests and loads people go oh fantastic, I love chatting to people, anything, but that's the time for me to sit down, have a little cry and do some drone work you know, that's that's, that's my thing and recharge my social batteries. But we're all different and I wonder how much that informs our the way that we shoot where, um, when I see very immersive, like that, those sorts of wedding photographers that do very close work, they're, they're with a couple that and they, they're actually interacting the couple. You can see the interaction in in the photo and it does actually translate through to the photos you've got rather than it does. A more of a sort of setback, more documentary, sort of observational I think that's a whole topic for another show in the future.
Speaker 2:But but I mean we're, we're much more. I mean I'm I'm not as extrovert as my wife, but after about 10 minutes my wife will know everybody's life history where they were born, you know what they do, where they went on holiday and everything else. So we, uh, we're probably much more in in the battle kind of thing than than yourself, really. But yeah, yeah, but if we're all the same, life would be boring, wouldn't it really?
Speaker 3:exactly, but you find that there's almost a um you're right, this is way off topic and there's almost like a um, a view that an extrovert, an introvert, is in some, some way a negative trait and in some ways it is socially, of course it is, but also it's it's just difference, isn't it mean?
Speaker 3:An introvert needs their own, you know that they recover and recharge by a bit of their own, just their own time, a bit of peace and quiet, whereas an extrovert actually isn't that they don't need to do that, it's that they need to have that social interaction. They need that bit, whereas an introvert needs to be on their own and it's just a different sort of thing that we actually have to do. And in fact, introverts in some situations that they just consider that, oh, it's great, you know I'm really chatting all that. But in when you're chatting to a group of people, if you're an extrovert sorry, if you're, you're really chatty into group of people be very dynamic. There'll probably be someone in that group that's going, oh, this is really full-on. I quote I would quite like to have no social interaction at this point and I think introverts are actually a bit more aware of that kind of thing than an extrovert might be but there is a whole.
Speaker 2:There's whole psychology around. This isn't there really, and, as you know, I spent most of my working life in sales and sales management and as a salesperson, one of the things I found really difficult it was selling to a very introverted person, because I'm an extrovert, but yet, and also surprisingly, some of the best sales people I ever worked with and still do, actually, as in my training role are introverts. They're not people who are not your archetypal salesperson, you know, give to the gab, mr charisma kind of people. They're people that are quite shy but actually understand the process and understand what's involved really. So, uh, but I think we should come back to photography because I think they might think we've joined what psychology monthly?
Speaker 3:absolutely, yeah, absolutely. And we've got today. We've got a tesney ward. So tes is a um fantastic wildlife photographer and absolutely check out her website. Um tesneywardcouk is just the beautiful shots of um, not just in the uk, but but shots all over the world as well. Yeah, so just fabulous photos focusing on not just the more, uh, extravagant animals or the more you know the sort of more money shot type animals, but also just more common varieties as well, which is really beautiful, beautiful frame, beautiful colored shots. So, tez, thanks for joining us today. It's really, really nice to have you on the show. Just as we start, we normally just ask people to go through a bit of their background. Would you like to do that? Just give us a sort of potted history of your photography and who you are and what you do?
Speaker 1:absolutely so. My name is tesney. I feel like I need to introduce myself as an introvert after the conversation you just had yeah, introvert so, yes, I'm based in the Peak District.
Speaker 1:I've been lucky, lucky in there I can't speak this morning to live in the area for over 15 years and I've gradually moved closer and closer to the point where I'm now actually in the Peak District. So I've been doing wildlife photography full-time for nearly nine years now. It's all exciting in the background. So I will hit my nine-year anniversary, so to speak, in February. Wow, and yeah, I can't complain too much.
Speaker 3:It's, it's pretty, pretty enjoyable of a job fantastic and you're, you're I know that you're an a buster for the OM system, which was Olympus back, you know, a few years ago. So how did that come about that? That partnership with OM for their cameras and lenses?
Speaker 1:It was one of those occasions where it's just right place, right time. So I had just spent a lot of money on photography and a big trip, so I depleted most of my savings at that point. I worked in sales, so I worked in medical sales and I had the potential to earn a lot of money. So I thought I can justify spending this on something I enjoy. We can all say that you know photography once you start doing it slightly more seriously. It costs a lot of money. So I justified it that I really enjoy it and I can earn that money back.
Speaker 1:But I was made redundant from my job a week before I was due to go on the big trip and it was a bit of a okay, this isn't, this isn't ideal. Um, so went on the trip. Was, I mean, an R-ing? You know what am I going to do? Am I going to go back and start doing job interviews and all of that fun stuff? And in the end I decided no, no, I'm not. I'm going to try and be a wildlife photographer and see how it goes.
Speaker 2:Good for you.
Speaker 1:And I didn't make any formal announcement or anything like that. But a week after being back home, olympus contacted me and said we see you at the photography show, so are, do you want to chat? Yeah, go on. Then you're offering me a free cuppa, so who says no to that? And it kind of just uh, carried on from there fantastic, god, that's.
Speaker 3:That's the sort of email I'd like to receive. How'd you get to be in the recipient list? That sort of email from sony or whoever? That's that amazing what. What does that actually involve there? So, being an ambassador to that brand? Now, presumably you, you, um, you shoot for olympus. I I used to. That was my first camera system was an olympus um em5. You know. So that that was how I like my entry point into photography, which is so that that shows that I haven't been to photography for very long at all. Really, what does it involve to be an ambassador?
Speaker 1:so our listener can sort of get a feel of what that means it's a constantly evolving and changing position, so sometimes you're really busy doing a lot of work for them, doing talks, doing events, doing workshops. Uh, occasionally I've been incredibly fortunate that they've sent me abroad to do projects and various bits and bobs, um. And then you have quiet periods where obviously you're still technically working with them but you're not doing any official events or anything. So it's a really, really great bunch of people. They're an amazing team. They're so involved with the photography community, so they're not just a we're a brand behind a wall. You never get to see us or speak to us. They're right in there with the community, which is amazing. Uh, and sometimes I'm involved with that. Pretty, pretty nice all around awesome.
Speaker 3:I think um steve you correct me, I think um fuji are a bit like that as well in terms of how that their outreach and and the collaborations help with photographers is a bit more open than some other brands yeah, I mean I'm I'm not a fuji ambassador never nowhere near close to being what I'm done.
Speaker 2:I don't shoot fuji anymore. But I know obviously people like kevin mullins who have been, and now emily reynier who's a good friend of ours, and we know the fuji film marketing team. I know the marketing manager very well and I think they are like that and my understanding with the, the, the guys you work with as tesla, it's a similar kind of thing. I've interacted with them a little bit. I did, uh, for a while, loan some equipment from them. Um so, and I've got a question just around, because obviously the brand's gone through a change, because it's gone from being olympus to om system when, I guess, olympus as a company exited the photography business I know olympus from my sales because they're obviously their medical device manufacturer uh, that's what they're well known for. Did that? Did that change for you at all to that? Did anything become different because of that?
Speaker 1:the team shrunk a little bit. So obviously when somebody new takes over, they like to put their stamp on it and try and make necessary adjustments where needed. So the team is a hell of a lot more busy than they used to be because they've obviously shrunk in size and they've taken on more responsibility. So the relationship is always changing, even since before they were taken over. But that's one thing that I actually kind of enjoy it's always fresh, it's always new. You never quite know what to expect um.
Speaker 3:So I wonder if I wonder if that shrinking of of a team does is partly responsible for using ambassadors to do things like creating videos, creating content, all those other things, rather than having an in-house team that that are content creators doing it for a much larger organization would have.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's that that's linked it's a funny one, because I'm not sure if the timing fully lines up, but when they were taken over and they shrunk the staff team, they also shrunk the ambassador team. So, um, yes, they were just trying to streamline ever so slightly. So, yeah, they obviously also went down the uh, they're focusing more on nature, nature photography, sure. So they streamlined it a little bit. So, as ambassadors, we are there if they need us, but they're also happy to just leave us to do our own thing until we are needed again.
Speaker 1:But there's never any pressure. I don't get a paycheck at the end of every month or anything like that, but you know it's. It's nice to kind of have that flexibility and if there's, some work, they'll let me know. Um. If I'm available, awesome. And if there's none, until we meet again and we just get on with our own bits and bobs that's super relationship, though, really, because you've got the flexibility and the independence haven't you really?
Speaker 2:and uh, but you've got the support there if you need it as well so I, when I shot um olympus, it was um.
Speaker 3:So are you shooting a? What's the main camera body? It used to be the em1. I mean, what's that? What's the equivalent now?
Speaker 1:tez uh, om1. Yeah, so I didn't.
Speaker 3:I didn't have. I didn't have the om1 equivalent that was. That was because when I started it it was, you know, similar to the position you were in before this, that before before that, that that type with OM where you think, can I justify, how much can I justify spending on something that doesn't currently have a way to generate income? And but what I loved about the EM5 system was the size and that must be a massive pro in terms, you know, in terms of a wildlife or landscape photographer, of a smaller bit of kit for you to carry around.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so when I switched I wasn't looking to switch, and when you've invested a hell of a lot of money and time into your current system, it's a really big leap to then go well, see you later, I'm going to something completely new that's going to take time to get used to and it's going to cost me money. So it's really nice that I got a free loan for quite a few months so that I could just trial it. And I won't lie, when I did the initial change, it was such a huge jump from a flagship camera to at the time it was the em1 mark one and it wasn't quite fit for purpose for what I needed it for. So it was a really difficult transition until they brought out the em1 mark 2 and then, all of a sudden, they addressed the issues that I'd had.
Speaker 1:And then every new model, they keep improving, they keep up in the ante, so to speak, because o Olympus system, because they come from that medical side, and even when they were still part of Olympus, photography was a bit of fun for them. We already, you know, they already had the technology, they already had the optics, so they were just like well, let's have a little bit of a play with some photography stuff. It was never meant to be a big money earner for them, so their lenses, their glass, in my opinion are some of the best in the business. So there were just so many pros that just kept sort of swaying me over and I'm a very happy girl.
Speaker 3:So for the listeners, I'm sure most listeners are aware that Olympus uses a micro four-thirds sensor size which is half the size Taz from a full frame From a full frame.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, so two times crop, yeah, so a bit more than a crop, you know, aps-c type, yeah, aps-c yeah, that's the combination of letters I was desperately searching for, yeah, so so things do tend to be smaller. The lenses are smaller, um, the om1 is still quite a quite a sizable you know sizable camera, but but smaller than the equivalent, um. So dslr and mirrorless, um, sort of full frame mirrorless. What are the pros and cons from your side, from your point of view, tas, of using that micro four thirds system?
Speaker 1:so for me there's several big pros and just one con that's left, and they can fix that very easily. So the pros my people often refer to it as the big white lens, so my big lens, compared to my old big white lens, is a lot lighter, it's a lot smaller and by the use of converters I can get up to 2000 millimeters of equivalent focal length. That's huge and that gives me the ability to get images that otherwise you simply couldn't get. Now sometimes there's the argument with some of the full frame, larger megapixel cameras Well, why don't you just crop Now?
Speaker 1:Admittedly, I haven't entered competitions for quite a few years now, but I still follow the guidelines and rules that they set for entries, because I think it's just a good framework to follow. And they don't let you crop your image more than about 75%. Oh, is that right? Obviously it does depend on the competition, but often that's one of the things that is stated Don't clone things out, don't go crazy adding skies and unicorns in the background, and don't crop your image more than sort of 80, 70 percent of the, the full size, um. So yes, you can crop with a larger megapixel, but can you then, if you get an absolute worldy of an image. Can you then enter that into some of the bigger competitions?
Speaker 3:the answer is probably no. It totally makes sense about adding things, removing things and, you know, adding a unicorn. You know this, which is why you don't see many unicorns in the world. You know what the wildlife yeah, yeah but but then cropping seems.
Speaker 3:that seems not like you know that, that doesn't seem in the same category to me, but if that's what it is, I mean like there's so many photos, like famous photos, like I don't know Che Guevara with his cap on. You know, it's actually a pretty small crop from a much bigger image with loads of other people in it, so that does seem.
Speaker 2:But I guess it's back to getting it right in camera really. You know if you can get, if you get it right in camera, first and foremost. Really, I mean I shoot with, you know, high resolution, 61 megapixel cameras, but I'd still rather get the, the image, properly exposed and properly sized in the camera if I could really, and that. So I totally get the. You know the, the optical reach of the, the macro four third system, certainly, yeah, makes a lot of sense that reach must be very important to you says when that?
Speaker 3:because, looking at your portfolio, you do have a very I mean, it's, it's completely immersive shots, aren't they? They're, they're, the, the, the, the animals look like they're. I mean, to me, when I look through, it just looks like, uh, the best of national geographic over the last 20 years. It's a really amazing shot. They're all so detailed. There's really close, you know, really tight shots, um, and interesting framing, which, which you're only going to be able to get. But that was one of my questions was going to be how, how do you get those sorts of shots?
Speaker 1:and you just answer that with these converters that give you such a massive, massive reach the focal length is one of the tools that allow you to do that, because for certain images, I've finally got, a couple of years ago, a frame filling portrait of a former and I was hanging off a cliff, so I can't get any closer. So the only thing that I'm going to be able to do is crop or use a longer focal length, and my preference just because I don't like to crop too much, doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it at all. But from my experience with this camera, I've done comparative shots where I've either taken it without converters and I've cropped in, or I've used converters and I've tried to get the equivalent image and see which one's better, and nine times out of 10, the converter images have been better. So you know if I can achieve it in camera. And then I always look at processing, as photography is a three-step process you take it, you edit it and then you print it.
Speaker 1:People take part in various stages. Some people are three-stage, I'm a two-stage. I've tried printing. I really struggle with it still, so I let somebody else who is far better at it do my printing for me.
Speaker 2:Me too.
Speaker 1:So I look at the processing stage as you've been in the mines. You've got some lovely little golden nuggets, but they're covered in clay, they're dirty, you've got some grit on them. When you're post-processing them, you're cleaning them, you're polishing them.
Speaker 2:It was still a golden nugget to begin with, but you're just bringing out that full potential, absolutely yeah. So one of the things I remember from using converters um, I don't know converter, remember, I've played around with them years gone by is, obviously you get the reach, um, you might lose a little bit of optical quality, but I guess these days that's probably negligible. But you do also lose some light. So you might go down, uh, you might lose one, you know, a stop, or even two stops, depending on the on the converters. How do you manage that? Bear in mind, I guess I guess we'll come on to this. But with the micro four, third sensor, I guess one of the things you want to do is keep the iso reasonably low. How do you manage that?
Speaker 1:so these days with the, the OM-1 Mark I and the Mark II, the high ISO performance is damn good, and also with the programs that are constantly evolving, things like I prefer Topaz. I think Topaz is wonderful. Lightroom Denoise is getting really good as well. High ISO shooting is a lot less of a concern these days right so some of the big pros of the micro four thirds.
Speaker 1:The image stabilization is exceptional. You can get up to 8.5 stops of stabilization. You pair that with the fact that it's lighter and smaller. So your hands aren't and your arms aren't, you know wibbly, wobbly and quite as much to keep it still. And then, um, the. This is a pro, but it's also a con, and I'll explain why. But the depth of fields. If you took a exactly the same composition with a full frame camera and a micro four thirds camera, the depth of field will appear wider. On the micro four third it's all to do with the focal length that you're having to use. Yeah, so you're able to get away with shooting wide open, but you're still getting the full subject in focus. You're not having to stop down and therefore lose even more light. So so I regularly will handhold wildlife. I don't want it slower than a 500th of a second, but if you've got to do it, you've got to do it, and you know I've done wildlife a half a second before, I've done it slower.
Speaker 2:Gosh.
Speaker 1:When we've had those wonderful northern lights in the UK, I've dangled out of my bedroom window and I've handheld four-second images with a shorter lens. Yeah yeah, I've dangled out of my bedroom window and I've handheld four second images with a shorter lens. But you know I'm not setting up a tripod all awkwardly on the roof, so I just dangle it out and get the shot. So, with all of the big benefits of the system, it means that losing a bit of light through a converter is worth it.
Speaker 3:It's worth the risk. Bit of light through a converter is worth it. It's worth the risk, okay, yeah, well, when you do these, these projects that you're working on, wherever they may be, what's? Can you talk a bit about your process to getting to, into the location? How long do you spend waiting for the right, the right shot, or or track? You know how do you find the, the, your the, the birds? How do you track them and find where they're going to be? How does that work?
Speaker 1:so one of the downsides to being a full-time photographer is you actually end up getting less time to do your own photography half the time, um yeah it's just got to pay them bills, so it can be difficult to put weeks aside to do projects.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to Madagascar in three weeks. Can't wait. It's going to be my first spell of just my own photography. I'm not running a tour. I'm out there with another great photographer, david Tipling, so we're literally just going out there to do photography and it's going to be great.
Speaker 1:When I'm doing the projects at home and I'm kind of having to start from scratch because I've moved house in the past five months, I have all of these new locations accessible to me and I haven't had the chance to go and check any of them out yet.
Speaker 1:I've not had the chance to go and walk my local routes, find new badger sets, find new locations. So I need to get the time to do that, find locations that are viable for photography so that then, when the season is right, go and actually get the images. So quite often when I say I'm working a project and I'm year three into a pigeon project, it's long term, because I might only get a day here or you know, if I have a day off, what's the chances of the conditions actually being good and the light being good? I'm always thinking long, long, long term at the moment, um, but hopefully in the next few years I'll be able to do less monetary work and more of just my own photography again, um, and just going out whenever I get the chance. The longer you're out there, the more likely you are to get the light, get the behavior, get the images you're after.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so that sounds really similar to. I know you do some landscape photography as well, and landscape photographers often say that you just sometimes you know you take a day off, work whatever it is. You see, if it's the wrong conditions you either have to side of, just abandon it or just go ahead and and accept it. It's just not going to be the ideal shot and it's. It must be super frustrating when you know, occasionally just things don't all line up in terms of the weather and the animals being there or the the light being correct, and and it's just, you know, completely sort of game over before it even starts. So so your process would be, in that case, not to bother to, to respect your own time and think, well, it's not worth getting a shot that you're not ultimately going to be happy with.
Speaker 1:You'd rather just delay that particular shoot until yeah, personally, you know, some of the one of the biggest projects that I did was badgers and sadly, the badger call put a swift end to that, although I hope to take it up again as soon as possible. So when I was initially working with them, if I had an evening free I was there. Rain, shine, I don't care, I'm there. And then as I started to develop the portfolio and I started getting the images, it was pointless going back in incredibly bad conditions where the light was just unworkable, because I already had a body of work that I was happy with and I was starting to be a lot more specific about the type of image I want, the behavior, the light. So, knowing that in the because I was working in a woodland, the light was already challenging, even if the sun was out, there was no point me going if it's blustery and raining and miserable, because the shutter speeds I'd have to work with were unworkable. The light was unworkable.
Speaker 1:So sometimes it's better to prioritize your time. Recognize when it's best to just have a day off. Prioritize your time. Recognize when it's best to just have a day off. Just have a day off and rest and relax. Maybe do some processing, do some bits and bobs behind the scene and wait for the conditions to line up for the kind of image that you're after.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I think that's right. Having conditions which aren't ideal can certainly, in my experience, does help a little bit, because it makes you dig a bit deeper and suddenly think, oh actually there is. You know, you, by finding a little pool of light, whether you know, you can actually get some beautiful shots which, on the face of it, you wouldn't have thought particularly that day.
Speaker 2:But if it's just gray and not ideal and the light's terrible, then it's just yeah, like you say, your time's too important really I think it's also the difference between you know having to go out and take images because that's what your job is and and that's how you make money, and you know doing it for fun. So I was up in the peaks a few weeks ago with um, one of our dogs, just for a long weekend. My wife was enjoying herself in florida and I got up at 5, 30 to uh to go parkhouse hill to photograph chrome hill in the sun, the sunrise and the course, peter Dammy, rain and cloudy and horrible. Got nothing, but I still enjoy being out in the fresh air and having a walk with the dog. So you know it's, it's, it's. I guess it's all about what you're trying to achieve, really, isn't it really? And you know if you're doing it for you know landscape photography, but I quite enjoyed messing around in the fields for for a morning and doing a little walking with the dog, really.
Speaker 3:So yeah, yeah, totally yeah. I think last time I did get up that early recently, but it was only to get a flight to sicily. That was the only for a whole day before to do it voluntarily. I think it was 1989, I think I. There was a day that I got that early.
Speaker 3:Spot the former it guy you've talked a lot about your uh, your, your passion projects and and and the things you love to do, and that you, that they take time, and something that's similar with landscape photographers as well is that wildlife photography for most of you, however beautiful work the work is and how talented you are which you're definitely the case is a difficult way to earn money purely from, to earn a business purely from that work alone, and then that's augmented with tours and workshops and so on. Now I know, I know you do some tours and they're extremely popular and the the feedback from your attendees is just phenomenal. Would you like to talk a bit about those and how they work?
Speaker 1:yeah, absolutely. When I'm doing tours and workshops, my photography it's not important at all, so occasionally I'll have my camera with me, but the thing that I enjoy most about it is when you get the opportunity to introduce somebody who really wants to see a certain species. Mountain hares are the big thing that I do in winter. When they see it for the first time and you just see that their face light up and they're just so excited and that is such a an enjoyable part of the job for me. We are so disconnected from nature, uh, as a society, and I think it's really important for people to get outdoors, even just for a walk, a walk just to sit in the woods and listen to the birdsong.
Speaker 1:And certain wildlife that we have can be quite difficult to find, difficult to photograph. So when people entrust me to try and get them into those positions to see that wildlife and photograph it, the excitement when it's over and they've got a huge smile on their face and they're going through their images and you can't put a price on that.
Speaker 2:I absolutely love being able to give people that opportunity I know you work if it's, if it is a flat day or for whatever reason, the mountain hares have gone on holiday and they're not around. How does that work, you know?
Speaker 1:but the mountain hares are quite specific. If there's low cloud and it's a bit of a microclimate where I do it, I will try and cancel. I'll basically say look, this is not going to work. We can't see more than 10 meters in front of us. Even if we somehow manage to find a mountain hair, the photos are not going to be good. So I'll always try and, wherever possible, postpone reschedule. Sometimes people can't reschedule and then I'll give them the option of we can still try for the mountain hares, but it's going. Images have a good day and you might find that the species I take you to see, which is typically red grouse but sometimes I'm flexible depends on what's around, if I actually realize that red grouse are awesome as well. So I always try and be flexible.
Speaker 3:Sometimes the weather's just not going to work out what's the what's the longest you you're waiting this is this is actually a question that one of the listeners sent in what's what's the longest that you've waited for? For that shot now, whether that's on a tour or on your own thing. At what point you say, right, let's just knock on the head. It's not working I'm still waiting.
Speaker 1:I've been doing photography for what? 12, 13 years now. The the thing with wildlife is you can have a level of trust with that animal so that animal is comfortable around you, you get the natural behavior, you can get the best light in the world, but then that species does everything that you want behind a bush, behind a tree, in the only dark spot in the valley or in the woods. There is always an element of luck and the more you work with a certain species, the more you see potential images that you you could achieve. And you're just waiting for it. You're waiting for everything to line up.
Speaker 1:So there was one badger photo. It was a badger called lissa. She sat on a rear end and she's preening, so her legs are up in the air, her arms are kind of flopping down. Golden light, beautiful. I'd been waiting for that for years and I'd seen the behavior almost every single evening. But the light was always bad or there was a badger in the way, or bush. There was always an element stopping me from getting the image and was an element stopping me from getting the image. And when I finally managed to get it, I was over the moon.
Speaker 3:I was so, so chuffed that everything had finally lined up. No sd card. No, I would have died, have you, if you had the opposite problem of animals that are inquisitive and and actually come towards you and then they're not exhibiting their natural behavior?
Speaker 1:sometimes it it does happen. Sometimes it's location specific. There are places where people feed wildlife, so they just associate you with food and they're climbing up your legs. There are scenarios where wildlife is just so habituated to people they don't care that you're there, and sometimes they'll come up and check you out. I don't mind it, as long as it's not putting the wildlife at risk. I always think that when it comes to photography, the wildlife and their welfare is the number one priority. Your photography is always secondary.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:But you know, sometimes when you have habituated wildlife, I like doing photography at country parks. I don't like the number of people there, but the reality is the wildlife just doesn't care anymore. So you don't have to worry about sitting in a hide for 10 weeks to get your shot. You can just sit on the water's edge and wait for the wait for the right moment. So yeah, sometimes it happens. I don't mind it too much. If it was a brown bear or something I'm gonna mind, but luckily we don't have those in the UK so if the listener is interested in in your tours, where would they find out more about that?
Speaker 1:if you literally just pop on to my website, you can google Tedney Ward and it will be the first option. I've got a full page um with photography, workshops and tours. Or you can always just drop me an email or message me on something like Instagram, and I'm always happy to talk more she'll be desperate to uh, to come and hang out with you for the day.
Speaker 2:Definitely so, if somebody listened to you and you know it's fascinating listening to you, tessney, but if somebody's listening to, uh, you're now thinking you know, I really would like to have a go at being a wildlife photographer. I'm, I photograph other things, but I really would like to go and have a go being a wildlife photographer. What would you, what would be your sort of top three or four tips to them that you know starting? What would you say?
Speaker 1:Don't instantly go for the difficult stuff. Don't be thinking right, I want to photograph eagles, I want to photograph foxes, I want to photograph whales. Right, start, simple. Start at your local park with waterfowl, mallards, geese, swans. You want to work on developing your understanding of the species, understanding what kind of compositions and light works best. You don't want to then add on top of that I also have to worry about field craft and hiding and you can really overdo it and it's just overload. So start simple. Start with stuff that's not scared of you. Start with stuff that's accessible, so you don't have to be taking long road trips for a 30 second viewing of a pine martin, for example, and then just persevere, keep going. Even today, my priority when I'm out taking images is portfolio. From day one, it's just portfolio, portfolio, thinking, portfolio, thinking about the one, a nice body of work, a nice selection of images with variety that I can put into a portfolio. Not that I've ever had a physical portfolio, but it's just think about putting together that selection of images that complement each other.
Speaker 2:Um, and then it it will just kind of evolve from there great advice, yeah, great advice, and if you want a bit of local, wildlife steve you can always.
Speaker 3:A good place for wildlife is always going to your nearest weatherspoons. There's always quite a lot going on there. Yeah, that I tend to avoid, I would agree it's a bit of fun. Nothing again. Well, I have got.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's not get onto that I've got a lot against Weatherspoon. Yeah, let's not get onto it.
Speaker 3:I think you wouldn't find too much disagreement here. Taz Smashing Well, that's been absolutely fascinating. I knew it would be, and we could talk for ages. I know I'm conscious of time. It's just been such a great interview and thanks so much for being so generous with your time for everyone listening. Well, we're going to go through just a couple of other bits and pieces. We've got a bit more to talk about Now. If you're happy to hang on, that'd be great. There might be something that we might come and get your expert opinion on. So, steve news this week Pleasure. What have you noticed around going on in?
Speaker 2:the big news I noticed in the industry um was the death and then the resurrection of rotolite. So, uh, do you use rotolites? You've any rotolites?
Speaker 2:no, I haven't no, I completely go docks, okay, so rotolite is a uk company based in high wicca, about 30 miles down the road from here, and um. They're best known, obviously, for their round led lights, hence the name um, uk made, uk designed. And we've got three of the small, the neo threes. They're about the size of a I can dinner plate uh, no, I didn't play a side plate and um, I bought them at the photography show last year, mainly because it was a good deal and you know what we're like for good deals and it came in a box of three with um rechargeable battery stands and everything and effectively half price, and I love them. I mean, they're not, they're not flash replacements, they're. They're an alternative really, and things like uh, dance floor work, they can be great and I've used them for zoom calls and things that I'm not using them today really.
Speaker 3:Well, they've got a massive. They're used a lot in films, right, I mean in the film industry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, completely, they're bigger ones, they're bigger lights are used in places like Pinewood Studios and things as well. But I guess their problem always is that they've got a UK manufacturer and a UK cost base and they're up against, you know, as you've mentioned the, the chinese brands, really.
Speaker 3:So so the problem they've also got is their curious option, their curious choice of um specifying sizes around crockery items. Right, because you said, you said it's a side plate size. I mean, is that do they do like a?
Speaker 2:purely by analogy. Nobody did it right. That's just by the way my my mind works. But they announced this week that they were going into administration, um and uh. That obviously is not good news for the employees and things. Uh, and I'm in their user group. And then they announced within a couple of days that actually that that it looked like the directors had come to some kind of arrangement and bought the brand uh. So it seems like they are going on, but as a new entity amazing but what their business model seems to be now is purely direct.
Speaker 2:So obviously they used to sell through the camera shops but now it seems like they're only selling directly on road to lightcom. But if you are interested, their list of some pretty good deals really pretty much half price and all their stuff, because I suppose they're not. They haven't got the resellers margin there to to factor in, so it'll be interesting to see what happens. I mean, as a uk company would be great if they can, you know, can survive and prosper really absolutely. You know it's difficult enough to make money in this country and to make things in this country and it would be great to see them go through. I think they're really nice people. I've really enjoyed talking to them at the photography show.
Speaker 3:I think the products are great and, yeah, I know, I know you thought very highly of them. I saw, I saw you at the photography show with your yeah, like a goodies that you picked up. The only thing I saw industry-wise this week was um fuji film stating that, um, they believe that younger people aren't really practicing photography in the same way and that, and this is why they're creating um camera bodies like the um xm5, which actually it's it's like a v, is it v100, v106, future the x100 yeah so it's similar in some ways to that.
Speaker 3:There's there's certain features in there for vloggers, like there's a portrait mode and it crops to instagram and so it's very much targeted at being able to get content directly onto instagram and that sort of thing, and they're kind of realizing that the younger and creators and photographers are using things like clips and content rather than, um, class photography. Just thought it's an interesting thing. I don't think that that's a concern. I don't think that young people aren't taking photos, because of course they are. There's a continual flow of new photographers joining the industry. Certainly weddings and you know, commercial photography, um, but that's just an interesting area that certainly we've seen things like in in the wedding industry content creators becoming much more popular and much more common. Now they have traditionally had iphones on gimbals and maybe that's going to be sort of a sort of logical extension of they're going to start using that sort of kit I think it's a it's inevitable trend, and I know fujifilm and sony.
Speaker 2:I mean how many vlogging cameras do sony have? I can't even work out all the different model numbers. Is that something that impacted the the om system brand tessney? Are you seeing that happening in their hardware as well, that move towards the sort of hybrid stroke content creation kit?
Speaker 1:I would say from what I've seen, no, they are still focusing primarily on naturey, outdoor photography, right um, and that in itself, I would argue, has the potential to drive more young users to the brand right, yeah, interesting, yeah, I mean, they make their cameras great video cameras, aren't they?
Speaker 2:because you mentioned the, the eye bits and everything in them as well. So, uh, interesting, I think it's. You know, I mean that the archetypal middle-aged, late middle-aged white man dragging his big rucksack around the cameras. You know the photography show. You know there are less of them around, you know, for obvious reasons. Well, I thought that was something really encouraging.
Speaker 3:In the last in the show last year um, I know, tesla, you were um presenting there. Um, I didn't, I will if you're there this year, I know I know we're not allowed to mention yet about um, whose speakers speakers are. If you're there this year, then, yeah, we'll catch up, have a coffee. The um. What I noticed was a lot of a younger general demographic than previous years, a lot more balance, with more female photographers than I've seen in previous years, more male models rather than just a load of female models. So I was really impressed with that and I think that diversity is something that's really good for the photography show and long overdue frankly, yeah, yeah, interesting, yeah.
Speaker 2:In terms of other industry news, you mentioned that that new fujifilm camera. There's rumors that there's going to be a new sony camera announced next month which allegedly is going to be the a1 mark ii. Uh, I don't know if you've seen that. I think it's the same sensor. They're just going to give it a bit of a an update in terms of the software, probably improve the focusing even more, um, but I don't think it's going to be a new sensor because it's still that 50 meg stack sensor. So obviously there'll be a flood of second-hand A1s on the market which might be quite a nice buy for anybody looking for something for weddings. I don't have an A1, but I know a lot of people do and swear by them for weddings and all the work as well, of course.
Speaker 3:One of and swear by them for weddings and all the work as well, of course. So one of the downside well, in fact I say one of the downsides of being vat registered I'm trying to think of an upside, so there's no upside, but one of the one of the issues being that, uh, being fat registered is that there's the second hand market doesn't.
Speaker 1:Isn't really a logical thing to know, because you might as well get it you know, get it new, but, um, I do need to.
Speaker 3:You know, as we've before, I do need to look at replacing my camera bodies. I'm kind of waiting for the. I don't think I need an R5 for weddings, but the a7 V I'm interested to see. Yeah, probably next year, see if I can limp on until then.
Speaker 2:So, from a techie point of view, neil, what have you come up with for this week? Anything new.
Speaker 3:Any thoughts on that? Not, no, not, not really. The only thing I've been looking at this week is um. There's been a couple of um workshop clients of mine that have had issues with um memory working out how much you know memory there this is using, things are going slow and when the computer's late, yeah, yeah. So computer memory um, typically with with mac um, and whenever things are going slow in lightroom this was some lightroom classic um clients it's always the same thing. It's always the previews file that's just huge and delete that and suddenly the wrap and running.
Speaker 3:But it it is a worth worthy reminder that people are often being advised to look at open activity monitor on their mac. Look at the memory, how much memory is free, and max just don't work like that. So mac, whatever memory you've got in there, it will eventually become no bytes free, because that's how it works. A few years ago they changed architecture so that if it's, if you're running a program like, say, photoshop, then you close it. It will keep all that stuff in ram. If there's space because you might open it again, there's no point getting rid of it and then loading it back up again because that's slow. So it does, which does mean it's quite hard to judge how much actual ram you're using. But if you're in a mac, look at the memory pressure and the swap, the swap space use. That's the thing. If it starts using swap, then it means that you actually have run out of ram that's using the hard drive.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, so that's going to and from your ssd or whatever, and that's the time that it might be beneficial in most macs, though of course it's all bonded. It's all tough to upgrade.
Speaker 2:You have to choose it can't, no, not in modern mac. Are you a mac or pc person, tisney?
Speaker 1:I am a mac. I hate how expensive they are when you buy them, but they last me a hell of a lot longer than any microsoft has, and I use a four terabyte external hard drive to keep any of my major things, and then I just have my recent archives on the computer, so they eventually get moved over to keep as much space as possible free yeah, I'm one of the strange people.
Speaker 2:I use both. I'm on a mac right now, but I also have got a pc mainly because of my training business. Sometimes being in the pc world is convenient, but right, I know which. I'd rather put it that way, I know what I love about mac.
Speaker 3:When I moved to mac years ago, the thing that I loved about it is never having a message saying something like fx71246cdll not found something completely you know. You never get anything like that or uh, you know. And in fact, apart from price, in fact, the only downsides of mac system I can see between having lots of experience with the two is price is much higher on a Mac for the same spec. And if you're into gaming, there's just not. The titles aren't there for gaming. But that's not due to the power or the graphics, it's just that games manufacturers just don't write. Don't see that as a big market.
Speaker 2:One of the things I was going to just bring up in this section and and it will also hopefully set up our next guest, which I'm going to come back to is and this is weddings, unfortunately, but how much do you do flash work at weddings and how much do you play around with flash modifiers? If you do do flash work?
Speaker 3:I tend to uh, use. So I use flash quite a lot, um, not, I'm not really a person that uses flash all the time. I know some do and create that that. That's all very, very contrasty. Look, um, once the light's too low for me not just to get the shot, I need it at least nicer. But if there's not enough contrast in the shot, that's what I'll bring my, bring my flashes out.
Speaker 3:Um, I have a mag mod setup right, um, for all of them and for me. It just I mean, I know it's not, you want the modifier to be as big as possible in the studio. I've got these big soft boxes which I'm using now. It'd be great if I could be, if I could have those, if I had a larger team, if I was all had an assistant. I would consider bringing those because they're just as quick to put up. It's just a faff when I'm on my own.
Speaker 3:So these magma systems, just it's just great, but they are quite small and I do get the feeling that when I've got a flash, let's say I'm doing a, um, a off-camera flash with a couple. So I've dialed in lots of ambient light, I've got the the background of the venue nice and warm, then using flash to sort of, you know, highlight the couple. Well, when my flash is 10 feet away, I know that that mag mod's not really making much difference to the um softness of the light, so, um, having something bigger would, would be more useful. What about you? What do you tend to?
Speaker 2:well, I've got a bag full of mag mod stuff as well, which I I bought second hand because I resented the price of buying the stuff new for bits of rubber and uh and gel, frankly. But uh, you know, I'm in this group called flashmasters and there's a guy in there who we hope they're going to have on the show at a future day, called Alex Buckland, and he raves about these things. So this isn't going to work if you're on the audio only version of the podcast. But it's called SNDV. It's a manufacturer and I think they're a Korean company, but they've got a whole range of soft boxes which literally just pull up and they pop open.
Speaker 3:All right, well, I'd buy that style.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all right, well, I'd buy that style, yeah, but the beauty of it is it literally just folds flat and you just literally pull it and it clicks and then folds flat again. And I've been playing around. Well, I say I'm taking the photo, poor samantha's having to hold the camera in the, the flash and the button and the softbox, but just putting it on a boom and booming it over the couple for, uh, like a final sort of what I call the last picture of the day. Really well, you've got a bit of outside lights and stuff really, and I'm super impressed with it, really so. But unfortunately you can only get them on aliexpress, so you have to buy it, you know, from a china, from a chinese company, and import it really, which I'm not massively keen on doing, but there's no other way getting it. So, but strongly recommend I'll put something in the show notes about it, but it's I think it was 100 quid for a 28 inch one and is it quite light, because that's always what I find with with any softbox.
Speaker 3:Like you. You're then thinking right, are my flimsy stands that I just carry around at weddings? Do I need to upgrade those?
Speaker 2:and so no, no super light and it's designed for like a v1, a v1 or an ad100 type. You can get different adapters, but the one I bought is literally for the round flash and it's great for that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I hope they have different. You know alternative channels to market, then soon enough it's very hard stuff for Caddxpress If you do any commercial work. I've done some work with SJP, sort of a big financial house, and you know, for those sorts of clients you do need to have an anti-slavery. Those sorts of clients you do need to have an anti-slavery. You know modern slavery statement on your website and that means analyzing all of your supply chain and as soon as you get something on AliExpress it's just impossible and then there's not to say that any of those people use AliExpress as an outlet are doing anything dodgy, but it's just impossible to sort of ascertain and prove that they have these.
Speaker 2:That's a super important point. I hadn't thought about that, yeah, yeah, really important point. So let's wrap the show for this week. So next time, all being well, we're going to have and I kind of set it up with that piece there, but we're going to have a guy called Neil Redfern on Excellent, and hopefully his partner as well, helen Williams.
Speaker 2:So Neil is a fantastic photographer, wedding photographer, based up in Manchester or I think he lives in Cheshire now and he's super active on YouTube. Youtube channel's wonderful, more geared towards other photographers these days, but they also run a community called flashmastersco and the work on that side is just off the scale. I mean, I'm in it but I'm not a flashmaster by any means. But he does an awful lot of podcasting and that. So, all being well, he'll be on the show next time and all being well. Um, he'll be on the show next time and it'll be well.
Speaker 2:It would be both of them great to get both on, talk a bit about what they do and also a bit about the, the flashmasters community. So I'll certainly forward to that. Um, testy, thank you ever so much again for being with us. This this, uh, week's been fantastic. Finally out about what you do, absolutely love your, your work, uh, and I also love the peak district. It's my favorite part of the uk, so, uh, walking landscapes and good beer, so it all it all adds up nicely for me, so thank you so much for being with us again today pleasure and nick uh.
Speaker 2:As I don't normally give a chance to say goodbye, do you want to say goodbye to the listener this time?
Speaker 3:I do want to say goodbye to listener and thank you for listening and, um, do share, spread the word about the podcast and the Facebook group. We love doing this and it's just really great to get you know the feedback that we get. Do leave a review on Apple or Spotify. I think you do it on Spotify. They're really handy just because it helps other people find the podcast it does. It helps a lot to win. I'll tell you what I'll give a free gift to somebody that does their first Apple review. So get in there. I know it's insane. Well, I'm not supposed to know what it is, but it'll be better. It won't be a camera and it will be better than a bag of crisps. So that's the Tess is on the phone already.
Speaker 2:She's ready to review again.
Speaker 3:No, it's got to be someone that's not been on the podcast no-transcript.
